Carmen, Kevin
Like your subsitution of power for value adds another valuable tool to the
box.
[Carmen]
> Mr. Pirsig is not isolating the MOQ into a 'pragmatism capsule'.
[Dave]
Not "isolating" but as the quote states "continuation," with stated
improvements. The rest of the paragraph continues:
[Lila P 366]
"It is a FORM of pramatism, of instrumentalism, which say the test of the true
is the good. It ADDS that this good is not a social code or some
intellectualized Hegelian Absolute. It is direct everyday experience. Through
this identification of pure value with pure experience, The Metaphysics of
Quality paves the way for an ENLARGED way of looking at experience which can
resolve all sorts of anomalies that tradition empiricism has not been able to
cope with"
[Dave]
Restated, MoQ is a FORM of pragmatism which ADDS and ENLARGES the way of
looking at reality.
Rhetorically the location of these quotes, in the summation paragraph near the
end of the chapter and book, coupled with Phaedrus blowing out the lamp for
"Good old sleep" is pretty convincing Pirsig is comfortable with where he has
placed MoQ.
What are ZMM and Lila, if not: "an intellectual calling to administer to the confused
> populace caught in the whirlwinds of societal crisis, the cross fires of
> ideological polemics, and the storms of class, racial, and gender conflicts?"
[Kevin]
> I must again uphold my absolute standard - competition is bad in all instances.
[Dave]
While a sympathize with your position and your examples sure paint a "bad"
picture of competition. If you would look at cooperation with the same
critical eye you might find that is is no panacea either.
But if the real test of your position is MoQ, it sure sounds awful static to
me.(I had a whole bunch of examples here but what's the use your position is clear)
[Kevin]
> I think one important exception to the avoidance of metaphysics in
> pragmatism is Ralph Waldo Emerson. Three sentences from Emerson's Essay on
> Self-Reliance floored me:
> "This is the utlimate fact which we so quickly reach on this, as on every
> topic, the resolution of all into the ever-blessed One. Virtue is the
> governor, the creator, the reality. All things real are so by so much
> virtue as they contain."
[Dave]
With the caveat still in place (I've only read one history of pragmatism and
none of the original works)
One I would agree that it is evident that Pirig's work does coorespond in many
instances to Emerson and many of those that built on Emerson's work.
I think the point must be made though that for early pragmatist's, Emerson, Pierce,
James, their metaphysics was religion (Christianity). I point to "the ever
blessed one" in your post, this is straight off the Sunday morning pulpit
circa 1840 whatever. The first paragraph in the chapter "The historic
emergnece of American Pragmatism" ends with this.
"Much like Emerson, they [first articulators of pragmatism] were intent on
viewing science as continuous wih religion-both shot through with moral
purpose." One can safely say that what "religion" means here is Judeo/Christianity.
IMHO what Pirsig does with an undefined, transcendent, DQ is leave it open for
use by all religions as their "place of God(s)" with little change of
individual religious dogma or MoQ necessary.
A note in passing. the [bracketed] names for power are my creations and
certainly do not cover the range of each philosopher work but are merely a
provocative snippet from their views on power.
You're right on Pierce he was still much influenced by the European
philosophies. He once refered to his pragmatism as: "Kantian without
things-in-themselves"
[Kevin]
> My problem with pragmatism remains that anti-foundationalism can never provide any
> meaning to life, the universe, and everything.
But MoQ seeks to put a foundation under it! What then? Then maybe, just maybe,
some of pragmatists insights into power, provocation, personality will be
helpful in understanding the implications of MoQ.
Dave Thomas
MOQ Online - http://www.moq.org
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