I thank you guys for the input. Here are some responses.
I. Platt Holden wrote:
"Since according to your theory your unique predispositions and experiences
dictated your answer to the free will/determinism question it would seem
your answer was beyond your control. Thus, if I answer that there is indeed
such a thing as free will, my answer would also be beyond my control."
My response:
My answer wasn't beyond "my" control since "I" am only a collection of
predispositions and experiences and it is these that dictate my answer.
There is no "me" that is somehow lacking control. Free will isn't really
the illusion, it is humankind's false sense of self that is. To me, this
fits perfectly with MOQ. An individual is no more than a collection of
biological, social, and intellectual value patterns that are shaped by
predispositions and experiences. These patterns are then ever-changing due
to Dynamic Quality.
II. Platt Holden wrote:
"With both answers determined and beyond our control, which is true? Or is
truth always relative to onešs unique predispositions and experiences?"
My response:
This seems to me to be a somewhat absurd question if I understand it
correctly. Whether or not there is free will is completely independent of
what you or I may think about it. I would argue that there is no free will,
but this doesn't make it so. Truth is not relative to my beliefs or anyone
else's.
III. Richard Chamberlain wrote:
> This does not destroy humanity or the individual as some suspect, it merely
> redefines them. An individual is no more than the sum of his or her
> predispositions and experiences.
"Hmmm - don't think so. What about the direct moments of quality perception?
Though maybe the final goal is true awareness of predispositions and
experiences and the transcendence thereof - like finally learning the rules
and then throwing them away because - hey I can't be bothered living
tethered to a list of rules and definitions. Some people go straight there
anyway. "
My response:
"Direct moments of quality perception," as you call them, ARE experiences.
They are the essence of life. Quality = experience. It not only makes us
who we are, it IS who we are. In that sense, you are suggesting that we
transcend Quality, and that's impossible.
IV. David Lind wrote:
"Seems there's at least a third alternate to determined or random.
What if life is "pre-programmed"? Neither random or up to us to
choose what will happen. What if we are merely playing our parts in
some grand cosmic play? (I don't necessarily believe this, but it's
possible, isn't it?)"
My response:
I don't exactly know what you mean, but let me try to clarify my position
and see if that helps. I don't think anyone would argue that human actions
aren't determined by human will. That is, ultimately, human beings take
actions that they wish to take. However, the question still remains as to
what determines human will. Actually, the first question is whether or not
it is determined at all. I think that the answer is obviously yes, because
if something isn't determined, then it HAS to be random, and I don't think
this is a viable position. Now, this doesn't give us the ability to predict
future actions. Things are still based on probabilities, as quantum theory
dictates and Pirsig recognizes, but these are still determined by Quality
(predispositions and experiences in the case of humans) and aren't just
random.
V. Owen said:
Excuse me if this has already been covered, I am fairly new to the
discussion as well, but my main problem with determinism, looking from a
MOQ point of view, is Dynamic Quality. When a person responds to Dynamic
Quality, does he/she step beyond the bounds of his/her existing concepts
and values? From my own reading of Lila, it seemed to me that this was not
only possible, but also the driving force behind evolution.
My response:
In this case, it is Dynamic Quality "determining" actions.
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