To: Rick (and Jonathan)
From: Roger
Re: The relationship of DQ to Chaos
RICK:
As I have always understood it, the "chaos" that sits below the inorganic
level is a sort of pure or "unpatterned DQ"--- the sea of DQ in which the
island of SQ resides and arises from. But I have recently been wondering if
this doesn't create a problem.
ROGER:
Although I can see value in your truth, it creates several problems from my
perspective. First, it again implies an objectivisation of reality, which the
MOQ flatly rejects.
Second, your model seems slightly more substantive than experiential. The
MOQ refers to DQ as a stream of quality events. To assign some type of
level to DQ seems to drift away from this analogy.
Third, I don't buy the chaos = DQ analogy. Pirsig admits flirting with this
concept, but I believe he too rejects it. The thread Jonathan and I are
engaged in takes this issue on directly. Randomness and pattern are not
intrinsic characteristics in reality, they are both interpretations of
experience, or in the prior terminology, interpretations of quality events.
RICK:
For if that chaotic "level" is equal to DQ itself then there is a clash in
the moral codes. For one code establishes "the supremacy of DQ over SQ" and
another establishes "the supremacy of the inorganic over the chaotic". But if
the inorganic level is pure DQ then this second code might as well "establish
the supremacy of the inorganic over DQ"--- I'm sure I don't have to list the
many problems that this creates for the system, and I know there must be a
problem in my understanding of the "chaotic". So I guess I'm asking two
questions:
(1) If DQ always morally "beats" SQ, and if the chaotic is pure DQ, then how
can the Inorganic ever morally triumph over the Chaotic?
(2)If the chaotic "level" doesn't equal pure, unpatterned DQ--- then what's
the difference???
ROGER:
DQ is pure experience, it is the stream of quality events prior to
categorization into levels, patterns or non patterns (randomness or chaos).
This interpretation of the MOQ is consistent with modern science (though
science usually explains it more objectively.) Quantum mechanics is science's
most successful theory of the underlying nature of reality. Quantum reality
is in essence event based. 'Objective' reality is explained as patterned and
unpatterned inter-relationships, with terms like 'particle' and 'wave'
attached to the emerging patterns. Higher level inorganic or biological
patterns are explained via complexity. Again though, matter and life are
extremely complex patterns of events.
In summary, I would suggest a model where DQ is not the 'chaotic level', but
where DQ is the underlying pre-patterned/unpatterned stream of quality
events/experiences/interrelationships. Sq and the four levels are high
quality, logically consistent interpretations of DQ.
Does this model work for you?
Roger
Rick >>
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