Hi All
On 27 Mar 2000, at 14:28, Richard Budd wrote:
> Cory:
> "Should we have faith? Can we have faith? How do we know if we have it or
> not?"
>
> Pirsig in ZAMM describes faith as, "...believing in something you know not
> to be true." (Sorry, I can't recall the citation off hand) A bit of a
> hyperbole perhaps, but I think I know what he's getting at. Once you have
> reason to believe in the truth of something you are no longer taking it on
> faith, you are taking it on reason. Once you are taking something on
> reason, there's no room left for faith.
> Rick
On 25 Mar 2000, at 22:58, Jonathan B. Marder wrote:
> So when Horse asks:
> >Should people have faith?
>
> I really don't know what question he is really asking.
>
> Furthermore, when Horse says:
> >I [snip] disagree that [snip] we cannot live without faith...
> I ask him if he really BELIEVES this? This is especially in the light of
> his definition of faith as:
> >A state of mind that leads people to accept something in the
> >total absence of supporting evidence.
>
> I see a gray scale here: The "supporting evidence" is seldom totally
> lacking, and seldom absolutely compelling. Then there are those cases
> where the "objective" evidence seems so strong, yet some other "sense"
> tells us to treat that evidence with the utmost suspicion.
>
Yes I do BELIEVE that faith is unnecessary - at least in the way that I have described it.
You're also correct that faith/dogma/belief and the supporting evidence for these is a gray (or
fuzzy) scaling.
At one end of the scale is "...believing in something you know not to be true." (thanks Rick)
and at the other end is the confirmation and verification (note that I am deliberately avoiding
the term proof) by scientific method. I would say that this more or less equates with a scale
starting at the low social level and working through to high up in the intellectual level.
Faith is very useful for maintaining social order and is often cynically exploited by those with
an interest in maintaining social order and it is just this type of faith that has been eroded
with the rise of intellect as a dominating force (probably one of a number of reasons why
Darwin was so disliked by a social structure centred upon faith).
Horse
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