Platt,
I considered memetics as a discipline. You are right of course saying that
it is not ! I was just trying to say that different ' scientific disciplines
' ( not
at a scientific level, but here on the Internet) are using memetic jargon in
order to push their discipline forward. But, yes I was keeping my dreams up,
I suppose !
And, yes of course too, there are doubts about memetics, but as long as
guys like a Dennett, Brodie, Lynch, Steele are doing their job in the field
I will be happy. And what Gould and Aunger and others are concerned...
It is easy not to take part in any discussion ( not anyway on the lists
where
I am member off) and say the whole idea is stupid. Maby it is, but it is
great fun. And by the way, it took a long time before the scientific world
accepted Darwin's idea (in America they never did) and in consequence,
later on genetics.
Although it seems to me, that genetics were more rapidly accepted than
the evolution theory of Darwin.
And why do memes appear, why do they want to spread ? Simple, it is
their nature of things, like selection requires perceiving Value I suppose.
Like someone wrote, Survival = Quality = Good and that Evolution =
Quality = Good is that the same of saying Quality determines Selection;
and Selection determines Quality !? Are we, like Struan Hellier wrote,
supported by the last few billion years of genetic and memetic evolution !?
I would say, we are not ! But that is another discussion.
In the following little extract I try to explain, seen from a religious
point of
view, how memes appeared...All of course are purely assumptions...
> << Are memes born of complex system ?
> Is the arisal of memes inevitable ?
>
> I would say, if we take the natural/ biological stance, that is as an
> evolution
> feature YES, memes are then a complex system_one among many.
> Memes are then, when nature takes her course inevitable.
> Of course, that is something we all assume !
>
> If we take on the other hand a biblical stance, than memes are in some
> sense " born ". Let me explain.
>
> René Girard is his efforts to explain culture investigates the problems of
> social history:- the mimetical character of all human desire, the origin
of
> conflict and violence, the founding operations of the scapegoat mecha-
> nism.
> Girard stipulates that Abel was the first human to be called as such.
> According to Girard, there are only two events happening in the story
> about Abel and Kain.
>
> The first, THE MURDER
> Second, THE FOUNDATION OF HUMAN CULTURE
>
> If indeed, human culture was then established we can suppose that
> memes came at the same time into existence. But, is that true !?
> Where, for example, did that meme came from !?
>
> Girard says, strictly speaking, SATAN (the metaphor for all evil in
> and between man) was and is from the very beginning of those, what
> Girard calls EDIFYING MURDERS, present.
>
> SATAN, if we take Girard hypothesis seriously, had to be present
> when Kain killed his brother; he had to be already there !
> Because there has been a murder, whatever the reason was, the
> thought to do so had to be there too !
> So, the most logical, very simple conclusion is that not only the very
> first meme was there " born " out of a raging conflict between two
> brothers, but the very first meme; the very first memetical thought
> was about ( to commit) murder !!
>
> " New memes " are now " born " troughtout the complex paths of
> evolution, we may suppose that Kain became wiser after he killed
> his brother,...had in some sense new / other memes.
> What is in fact the memetical process, if not a process to spirit away
> what really happened back then !?
>
> The consequence is that memes (our memes) by some form direct or
> follow the same pattern which Kain followed.In a sense, memes are
> " born " ( and propagate themselves) troughtout history by means
> of conflict:-war, morality, religion, belief, reason, ethics, ideology,...
>
> This is a shorter version of an extented message, posted to the meme-
tic discussion list earlier on this year.
Many versions of how memes first appear are going back tackling the
egg and the chicken problematics...what in my point of view is interesting
enough to fill thousands of pieces of paper. Not that I want to discuss
this,
please !!
Hope you enjoy,
Kenneth
(I am, because we are)
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