----- Original Message -----
From: <skutvik@online.no>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2000 8:20 PM
Subject: MD Harmonizing the MOQ and Memetics
Bo you wrote,
> Er.....the nature of humankind within a meme-concept?! Isn't that
> what Dawkins has done? I hope you have some quality-memetic
> harmonization in mind? If so I too believe that it can be done and
> there are no "buts" except that such an untertaking is somehow
> too much for me who at 66 experience the first signs of limited
> energy.
> I don't know the said Sloterdijk and Rietdijk (can you give me a
> summary?) but it all points to an increasing number of ideas that -
> as said - flies in the face of the subject-object metaphysics.
> Something is in the air - has been for a while now.
> But will such a revised memetics be memetical afterwards, and will
> Dawkins agree? All right, if you feel for writing some outline I am
> eager to have a look at it.
<< I will outline the idea I have on the basis of the data which is handed
to us by Sloterdijk and Rietdijk.
But first of all, who are those guys.
Sloterdijk is a German philosopher who made quite a controversy in
July 1998 publishing the essay_ Rules For A HumanPark_ in which he
outlined his view about humankind.
In a nutshell he is proposing to review how much heredity is playing a
role in explaining and in the steering of human behavior.
In his opinion, as I understand his writings, we can 't escape our genetic,
and therefor not even our memetic heritance, that is_we are bound to our
culture ( and its Quality, whatever that is).
That is, like Sloterdijk says, the Volksgeist, The people 's Spirit, the
People's Soul. That is, like Sloterdijk is a German, the history of his
land was something what made the terrible outcome inevitable. Also how
the German people thought and thinks now, is inevitable.
Of course, you can image how much food for reflction this gave across
Europe, especially in French philosopher- mids.
In my opinion, he is right about one thing, that is that we can 't escape
our
cultural bounderies. We are determinated by the traditions and habits of
the people where in we belong to.
Our cultural/ social destiny, our fate is fundamental, our social/
political/
ethical etc. processes ensure the continuity of our uniqueness as a people/
nation.
In the light of the matter, that is, you can 't escape the fundamental
Quality
Rules which are inbedded in the ways of how you organise your society,
of how you think about yourself and about others. That all is due to what
is inbedded in the Volksgeist. Like Germans think they are the Ubermensch,
what Sloterdijk denies, we the Flemish are some what modest, the French
think they invented democracy and the Italians think they are great lovers.
Sloterdijk is in fact a contra- revolutionary, he wishes to control the
current trend in sinking back into savarery of humankind by applying
eugenetics, " breeding " humans ( that is the Park in the title of the
essay)
and by re- educating people...to give humankind the Quality back by
which we can call ourselves humans...
In my opinion, this is a collective process wherein, we as a nation must
re- establish Quality along some fundamental lines of our existence, that
is genetical/ biological/ cultural/ social and memetical ( that is in the
way
we think about ourselves and about others).
The stakes are high here, as you can imagine.
Sloterdijk, and I agree with his view here, in in fact searching for a new
definition of humankind, but in my opinion, humankind is searching for
a new home for metaphysics from where out we can write MAN.
Cultural, social,...Quality is here part of the being of the people.
On the other hand, you have Wim Rietdijk, a Dutch philosopher and
physicist who offers us a more individual view upon Eugenetics, Gen-
technology and Euthanasia_ or in his words, HOW TO OPTIMISE
PEOPLE'S HAPPINESS.
In his opinion, when you have the technology to choose, ( you have the
right to choose) between a healthy child and a disabled one and you
choose the last one, he doubts your state of mind. And if the child be-
comes disabled during, like he says, the first few years of his/ hers exis-
tence there must be the possibility to let it die peacefully.
And, there he is right, there you can choose literally for Quality !!
Also Rietdijk is offering what he calls Quality criteria to reduce the
staggering population explosion. Once again here, with the recent history
in mind not quite a subject to talk about in the context of humanism, what
both man see as the future, but in the last 10 years of so such ideas are
coming more frequently about.
Moreover, in discussions about democracy, which I do have more than
ever, such ideas are taking for granted, that is_a democracy is a " fair "
scheme which gives us the possibilities to choose, we have a " free will ".
Rietdijk proposes a context wherein he enlarges the possibilities to the
extend of our genetical/ memetical consistency which is now blocked
by laws and rules. Rietdijk wishes to change those rules into individual
( democratic) rights to choose and in my opinion he wishes to extend
those further along lines of Quality, that is along lines of education,
insight, self- responsibility...in my view, along memetical lines, that is
along lines of thought and neural connections.
And I agree !!
In my opinion once again an attempt to re- write the nature of man, to
form a new metaphysics.
Conclusion,
Both, Sloterdijk and Rietdijk are searching for something behind already
existing patterns of Quality, but they acknowledge, and I agree, that those
existing patterns are not enough.
Sloterdijk sees that people their Volksgeist is disintegrated by lack of a
homonimous process within the society and Rietdijk sees that the individual
his rights to be a true individual are disintegrated by laws and rules pre-
venting him in applying his/ hers true genetical/ memetical nature.
In order to solve the problem we have to do two things.
1_ re- establish the Volksgeist ( that what makes us English/ Amarican)
without starting a war, and 2_ establish an individual point of view.
In both ways, we have to ( re) establish some kind of Quality within
our society whereby/ wherein the individual finds his/ hers own personal
Quality which in turn will ( re) establish the culture further.
That means overall, that we have to talk with one another, what from a
personal perspective I doubt we will, due to those famous genetical/ me-
metical bounderies. We have to start from out the perspective that every-
body else in different, is not like us and respect that and in my view we
have to start from there, from out the individual his/ hers personal preve-
rencies...that are those epi- (m)ge(m)netic rules of Quality.
And from there out you can begin to re- write the nature of humankind,
to write a Metaphysics of Quality- Memes.
You see, Bo, yes indeed something is in the air and it has been there for
a while, but noone is talking about it. I think we are on the eve of a great
era wherein the Einstein of socio(bio)logy eventually will stand up.
But, I hope/ I think thatta one is not gonna be...
You see, I can 't deny my heritence, I am still playing the modest guy...
And, to Dan and Roger, I agree that MOQ would offer insight into memes,
but if it will be greater than the other way around I do not know, I wish
to learn more first...but I will present this as a possible thread upon the
Memetic Discussion List...if I may !?
And, no Roger, I do not think very human centered...I believe something
is out there, but behind the human and that something makes us tick like
humans in all of our levels...
Bo,I hope I did not offend you in any way with the above and all on the list
here...it is like the Six Million Dollar Man, we have the technology and we
will go where noone has gone before....but that is another serie...
Have a look at it and enjoy...
With all do respect,
Kenneth
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