----- Original Message -----
From: Richard Edgar <rjedgar@edgar9931.freeserve.co.uk>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2000 10:33 PM
Subject: Re: MD MEMES
Richard you wrote,
> I'm not sure I full understand what you are saying here but the impression
I get is that IYO my view is not that the intellect ignores society but that
society is making ITSELF redundant. I hope that isn't what I have been
saying, as my view is the exact opposite. I think that intellect DOES
ignore society and the formulation of the new ideas from the intellect
leaves the society redundant, as there is nothing within society to compete
with the new laws.
<< I still get the feeling that is what you are saying, but I could be
wrong.
Anyway, I agree with the last sentence, but IMO this is something that will
be solved in the nearby future. That is, you are quite right evocating our
history over the lines of tribe- leader up to democracy, but in Europe, in
contrast with the US we are just beginning to make a political midfield.
The lack of just a field is due to our social/ political history, but I
repeat_
Intellect is chosen as the governement by the Social, it is something we
place upon ourselves.
People can 't bare total freedom. In total freedom we are drawn from all
the others, with them we " make " ourselves. By the way, personally I
don 't like that very much, but do you really think that the Social care
for one bit about the Intellect/ Politics !? Oh yes, like you mention, when
the Intellect treatens a take- over of Society, but is that not already done
!?
Who do you think are calling the shots here !?
Society has a dice to role, but they don 't use it, because are simple lives
are more important than the society we are living in, more important than
the governement which is rulling us_ we only see the Intellect/ politics as
something to compete with if the Intellect/ politics are treaten our lives,
when our rights are trampled under their feet.
But, again, those rights are the feedback of something which originally
started from out Society, there has to be ' something ' there so that the
Intellect can formulate new laws. I don 't see how the Intellect can for-
mulate new laws upon ' things out of the blue ' !?
Or, do you mean what lawyers seem to apply, those little holes of inter-
pretation...?
IMO, still, we are still in the transitory period between society ruling and
intellect ruling just because we are ' split ' into Avant- garde and Kitch.
We think we are smart and do have something to say. Look for example
at all those in the street talking about subjects of which they know
nothing.
Dioxine- crisis !? Oh, yes, the farmer daughters brother in law, his sister
on mothers side her uncle, well he said...live on TV, treated like a VIP,
that one day his cows flew tru ' midair. Crisis, yes, of the mind though !!
Intellect has no reason to take over the Social, why should it bother with
something stupid like that !?
That is why I wrote, the Masses are stupid and narrow- minded, I don 't
care if they are, it is just an ascertainty. Look at all the TV- shows,
reali-
ty- shows, show- infotainment aspects of our society...Intellect !?
Failing of education !? Yes, there you are quite right, but it is a failure
of
the Social not of the Intellect ! IMO, I don 't think with just changing the
view that education is not cool you will solve the problem. Showing them
the rewards !? Which ones, those of the industries polluting our atmosphere,
the stupid factories, the Mc- Donalds jobs !?
People of today, IMO are trapped by the inate split of Avant- garde and
Kitch.
Let me give an example,
I work now, for about twenty years with immigrants. Only one over all
those years I had to give the sack, due to a fight. Most of them never
made it to the second grade in school. Lack of education !? No,there
were posibilities, but they never had the chance to express themselves.
That has two explanations,
1_ our society is not really an open book for immigrants, they don 't speak
our language, we not theirs. We think, therefor they are stupid. So, what
do we do, we push them into courses of manual labour. But, that is not
what they want, they don 't want to clear up our mess. They want to be
architectes, lawyers, judges, politicians, factory- owners, etc. in other
words, they want to present the Intellect.
2_ their genetic/ memetic lineages, my hobby- horse if you like, but one
I get results with. That is I meet them halfway, I don 't see a Turk, a
Russian,
an immigrant,...I see a human being and I start from there.
They have ideas of their own, they have their genetic built up wherein
pieces of their behavior and dreams are present. Denying them the possibi-
ties to reach for the top, is denying them their own innerself. How perver-
sitive can you get !?
Last Thursday a Turkish girl came up to me, she is now for six months at
home due to a depression. How come !?
Her parents moved from Turkey to Belgium in order to give their children
a better future. The parents, that was from the beginning their goal, gave
them a " Belgium- education ", they speak four languages, one of them is
now trying to get a doctor degree, but the girl mentioned above fell between
the curtains (that is an expression). As a Turkish girl she was/ is always
dressed like an European, you see almost no difference.
But apllying for work her Turkisk name, her Turkisk identity, her genetic/
memetic built- up sits in her way. Knowing that you can 't change the
colour of your skin and that just that fact mimimizes your possibilites on
the working- market, well...fill in the blanks.
Who 's fault is this !? Society's no doubt about that !
There is no Intellect in Society, therefor they " choose " their
representa-
tives, but are they " Intellectual " !? I don 't think so. They are, even
more
stupid than the Society by which they are choosen.
Real Intellect is found within people, what is " BETWEEN " people,
the help we get, within the words, within the conversations.
Possible you can " educate " that, but from my stand here, I don 't think
that, Intellect is something inside you, and I don 't have it here just
about
a high IQ.
Richard, I suppose that whas not the kind of reply you were waiting for, but
IMO anyway, your view is quite right, but I think, excuse me for using the
words, a little bit " naive ". The parts about Dynamic and Static Value are
just right, but the parts about human perspectives are IMO quite soft.
Reality out there is far more harder...people are not just numbers, we are
living being, we think, therefor we are...but not all quite the same.
Best regards,
Kenneth
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