----- Original Message -----
From: PzEph <etinarcardia@lineone.net>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Friday, November 24, 2000 2:26 AM
Subject: Re: MD !!!!MEMES!!!
PzEph you wrote,
> There are all sorts of dangers in talking about 'idea' and
> 'concept' here, not to mention 'foundations', connected with the fact that
> such words can carry a huge baggage of assumed distinctions, when what we
> want to say might rejects those ways of cutting up the world, or apply
them
> differently.
<< Very true, that was why I have put " the concept of quality " between
quotation marks, it all comes down to meaning, definition and response.
My point was/ is, if Quality runs throughtout the Universe as Dynamic
Quality that is, than in my opinion it is " an idea ", " a ( evolutionary)
con-
cept by which the Universe shows itself or by which we experience the
Universe. But what Quality exactly is we can 't described, we can' t see,
can 't hear it, can 't taste or smell it.
> Ideas are (in English at least - forget Platonic Greek) things that minds
have: the world can't have an 'idea' all on it's own.
<< Mayby I am running up your garden here, but the idea of Gaia, a New
Age concept about the world, would opposite such remarks. In that, the
world is viewed as one living organism and if the times were ripe it will
dispose of us. Nature will get its way, that is, somehow Quality will win!
> > Quality can be identified by reactions of
> > whatever in the presence of Quality, in your own words_ we should react
> > upon the presence of Quality by constant inventing new technologies !?
> Yes that seems right, and seems true to the art of Motorcycle
Maintainance.
<< Strange thought, that by inventing new technologies in order to torture
someone we end up with a higher standard of requiring information.
We end up with a higher Quality- rate of our work....
> But for you his memetic framework just is the way in which he sees
Quality -
> yes? - I mean the one doesn't change the other, it is the other.
<< Yes, due to experience ans skill he knows how to act. Vancouver is
seen by the captain as indeed having quality, his mind acts upon the notion,
changes therefor the captains view, changes his behavior and therefor his
heading accordingly. The notion of Quality which is " changed " here is the
notion of keeping the situation under control. Quality is here getting home
safely...
> Our 'self' is a kind of artifact, after all. And I don't follow on the
> technology aimed at itself idea either. 'Technology' means 'tool', and if
> all the factories in the world were just tools for keeping factories
running
> (which some industries probably are) then they'd be pretty useless (which
> some are), and anti-quality (which some are). At some basic level, a tool
> is a tool because we can do something wanted with it.
<< I 'm not gonna put you right, just check out the following and make up
your own mind.
See Michael L. Best at
http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit/1997/voll/best_ml.html
See especially Paul Marsden at
http://www.cpm.mmu.ac.uk/jom-emit/1998/vol2/marsden_p2.html
Have fun,
Best regards,
Kenneth
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