ROG TO 3WD and ELEPHANT ON JAMES
ROG:
Excellent summary of James. Absolutely 1st class. Especially the
comparisons of DQ and Pure Experience. You should consider converting it into
a forum article.
Some comments:
3WD:
Given that D.T. Suziki says that " the most misunderstood aspect of Zen
in the West is that it is a religion" I find it ironic that Pirsig, who
seems to have promoted and integrated the tenants of a single religious
camp (Zen) into his philosophic endeavor, should be so sensitive to one who
is willing to accept them all. But more about the Zen connection later.
ROG:
I always thought his comment meant it isn't a religion!?????
PIRSIG:
"Because Quality 'is' morality. Make no mistake about it. They're
'identical'. And if Quality is the primary reality of the world than
that means morality is also the primary reality of the world." pg. 111
ROG:
Am I the only one that sees this as a distortion of the term morality?
Certainly he makes a good case that morals are Quality, but that doesn't mean
that Quality is morality. It is like saying giraffes are animals, so all
animals are giraffes. I have never seen the pragmatism of this statement.
Sure he goes on to qualiify the term, but he can never clean this term off of
all the baggage --good and bad -- that go with this term.
3WD:
If the MoQ is an extension of radical empiricism and pragmatism it
should most certainly in some form or another embody "humanism" . Indeed
if all Static Qualities are purely "human" constructs I have no quarrel
with the above quotes. However when he says "First, there were moral
codes that established the supremacy of biological life over inanimate
nature" I think he has left the empirical realm, though he may still be
in a pragmatic one.
ROG:
I strongly agree that it is pragmatic. It is consistent within the
metaphysics and consistent with other theories -- as long as a
non-traditional interpretation of "moral" is used. (I am wincing now in
anticipation of Platt's response!) Ant's essay in the Quantonics forum deals
with this issue. I posted the web site the other day in the MF.
ELEPHANT:
Also, I'm not sure that you've yet answered my question 'What is the
"pragmatic mode of selection" by which the idea that "truth is a species of
good" is reached?' Maybe I'm being dim. I'll go read some James.
ROG:
According to James "The true is the name of whatever proves itself to be good
in the way of belief, and good too for definite, assignable reasons." He
goes on to state that if believing truth led inevitably to terrible outcomes
that we would learn to shun the truth. But in general, it doesn't, and there
are truths that not only appeal to us, but also are " helpful in life's
practical struggles." He also clarifies that one, if not the most, important
aspect of truth is that it harmonize ("not clash") with our other beliefs.
In other words, truth's value is in its value in dealing with life's
struggles and in harmonizing with our other truths. Truths value is Quality.
[The above is sketchy, but it is late. Check out "What pragmatism means.")
Rog
PS -- I don't think James would approve of an absolute, eternal Platonic
truth. But again, read the selection.....I haven't had time to read your
paper yet.
PPS -- This is the best month on the MOQ site in at least a year and a half.
AWESOME JOB ALL!!!!
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
MD Queries - horse@wasted.demon.nl
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Sat Aug 17 2002 - 16:00:51 BST