Hi Bo, hi everyone
RED began
> My understanding is that mind/matter should not pollute the idea as, > in ZAMM Pirsig defined mind and matter as being CREATED by quality. > He argued that The inconsistency between mind matter and quality was
> only inconsistent if you viewed things from the subjective/objective > idea of the world. By placing quality the creator, the problem does > not arise. I think this is chpt 19 ZAMM,around page 250.
Bo replied
No, the mind-matter (SOM)
should not pollute the MOQ, but does so easily. Yes, mind and
matter are Quality's creations and you are right about that pair's inconsistency.
ZAMM however was the first sketch of his new metaphysics where the first trinity version (Quality-object/subject) was presented, only in LILA are the two missing links between
object (matter) and subject (mind) introduced (Biology and
Society).
RED
The problem i have may be that i am not understanding ZAMM as i should, but since the metaphysics of Lila started from a few basic statements. one of which is that quality is the instant, put in moq terms, the quality of ZAMM is dynamic quality. Since mind and matter occur later (it takes time for DQ to be crystallised) the mind and matter can in no way pollute quality,instead they pollute the perceptions of the static planes left behind by DQ. IMO of course! :o)
> RED
> Really? Look at the effect of nuclear fission and fusion on the
> inorganic world, is the intellects advancement not compromising the
> values of the protons, electrons, positronss etc.? Are the lower
> levels values really fixed? Doesn't this open up the idea of the
> static frame vs moving picture view of levels??
BO
As I see it nuclear reactions don't "have an effect on the inorganic world", they ARE inoganic value. However, my saying that the
levels are "fixed" doesn't mean that things don't happen, there is a constant flux. More energy into an collision experiment brings ever
new particles. Given enough time new life forms may appear (what
may be moving in other worlds?). Social configurations come and
go, and at the intellect the flux is even greater. But no new natural laws won't appear and Life - built on an whatever element - is
bound to follow its basic value of consumption and proliferation.
....etc.
RED
What i was trying to point out is that while the value planes ARE static, our perception of them changes as our experiencing of the world around us changes. from the human angle the value planes are far from static, and by viewing them as static you are closing yourself off to new data presented by DQ. one you start doing this you move from an evolutionary metaphysics to a cult or religion (once you have enough followers).
Bo
For your "benefit" I attach an exchange
between Marco Bonarelli and myself (which was too off-topic at the
MF). If Marco spots it he may take up the thread.
You will find an essay on it at:
http://members.tripod.com/~Glove_r/Childintro.htm (This is his Dan Glover's "Lila's Child" address, but you will find a SOLAQI link there).
Thank you Bo, I'll look at this today and get back to you. :o)
Kind regards
Richard
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