Dear Matt, David, John & others,
Matt brought up "the plight of this discussion group" (13/6 18:29 -0500) and quite a few others reacted.
Matt wrote 13/6 18:29 -0500
"The track and platform we need is, quite obviously, the MoQ. Discussions should include interpretations of the platform, extensions of the platform, and why particular parts of the platform are a load of crap. Everything should be about the platform. As to what should be extensions of the platform, since the MoQ is a general description of everything, everything is an extension of the MoQ. That makes God and politics and the death penalty all viable topics of discussion, but only in relation to the MoQ."
David wrote 14/6 23:55 +1200
"The concept of studying the MoQ and nothing pertaining to its implications in the environment is rather static quality, almost absurd as Pirsig explained it can't ever be completely understood."
I sympathise with David. What's the use of just creating a better metaphysics (a better platform for discussion)?
I feel (but can't yet fully explain) that metaphysics is (one of the ways of) latching DQ on a 5th level of static patterns of value. Metaphysics can't be fully founded by intellect. Part of it remains "a matter of faith and belief" (Marty's and Clarke's words 6/6 10:04 -0700 and 15:39 -0400) when it can't ever be completely understood by the empirical and rational modes of knowing (as John explained 15:33 +1000 rephrasing Ken Wilber). The "groping 5th level" (Bo 7/6 20:36 +0200) seems to me to be connected to John/Wilber's spiritual mode of knowing. Shouldn't this 5th level "offer freedom to lower levels of evolution" (Lila ch. 12, Bantam edition p.176) more specifically to intellectual patterns of value (science, theology etc.)? "Freedom" means "freedom from and breaking static patterns" (or "putting them to sleep"?! Lila ch. 30, Bantam edition p. 440), e.g. freedom from and breaking the rules of rational discussion. We should learn to use metaphors, paradoxes and experience that isn't immediately translated into an opinion in this mailing list if we want to explore this realm and want to be instrumental in latching DQ on a 5th level.
With friendly greetings,
Wim Nusselder
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