Hi All
Lila by RM Pirsig
Chapter 13
"When a society is not itself threatened, as in the execution of individual criminals, the issue
becomes more complex. In the case of treason or insurrection or war a criminal’s threat to a
society can be very real. But if an established social structure is not seriously threatened by a
criminal, then an evolutionary morality would argue that there is no moral justification for
killing him.
What makes killing him immoral is that a criminal is not just a biological organism. He is not
even just a defective unit of society. Whenever you kill a human being you are killing a source
of thought too. A human being is a collection of ideas, and these ideas take moral
precedence over a society. Ideas are patterns of value. They are at a higher level of evolution
than social patterns of value. Just as it is more moral for a doctor to kill a germ than a patient,
so it is more moral for an idea to kill a society than it is for a society to kill an idea.
And beyond that is an even more compelling reason: societies and thoughts and principles
themselves are no more than sets of static patterns. These patterns can’t by themselves
perceive or adjust to Dynamic Quality. Only a living being can do that. The strongest moral
argument against capital punishment is that it weakens a society’s Dynamic capability—its
capability for change and evolution. It’s not the “nice” guys who bring about real social
change. “Nice” guys look nice because they’re conforming. It’s the “bad” guys, who only look
nice a hundred years later, that are the real Dynamic force in social evolution. That was the
real moral lesson of the brujo in Zu–i. If those priests had killed him they would have done
great harm to their society’s ability to grow and change."
Glen:
While i'm not keen on social pattern (the state) destroying intellectual patterns (citizens),
there are some animals (biological patterns) out there that happen to share a species
with you and me.
Horse:
Several billion I believe - in other words each and every human being without exception.
Glen:
Look at any case history of a serial killer and it's clear that social patterns must protect
themselves from such biological patterns.
Horse:
Agreed. Now perhaps you could explain this justifies the death penalty?
Glen:
Based on the MoQ it is immoral for a social pattern to destroy an intellectual pattern but
it is not immoral for a social pattern to destroy a biological one.
Horse:
This is a gross distortion of the MoQ. It is only 'not immoral' when there is a moral conflict
between Biology and Society (conflicting moral patterns) and the destruction is in respect of
the patterns, not just the form that is created by them. A Social pattern of value can destroy a
Biological pattern of value just as easily by reforming and/or containing the Biological pattern
of values.
Alternatively, as with the Merchant of Venice, can you offer me a means of physically
destroying a Biological pattern without harming Intellectual patterns (a pound of flesh without
spilling a drop of blood)?
Glen:
Maybe if we wrote down all the thoughts (if any) of some these sick cookies you would feel better
about removing them from the gene pool.
Horse:
In the sense you mean only if we're as sick as the cookies to which you refer. But as you
mention removal from the gene pool then incarceration or sterilisation is just as effective as
execution - in fact moreso because it doesn't then cause us to become as sullied by our
actions as the murderer has become.
Glen:
I think the MoQ would support the use of deadly force to protect others from such predators
if you caught them in the act, Don't you?
Horse:
If there is immediate danger to those present then this counts as self defense - but for all your
talk of freedom of the individual, which presumably includes the idea that a person is
innocent until PROVEN guilty (i.e. in a court) you still seem willing to support the
administering of instant 'justice'. The MoQ most certainly does NOT support kangaroo courts
any more than it supports lynch mobs.
Horse
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