Wim and others,
I have been tardy responding to your lengthy message of 30.6, Wim. You say "Somehow it doesn't feel right to distinguish between the communal and the individual decision. In religious language: it is God's decision and (depending on how you "point at" indefinable God, which Quakers do in diverse ways) neither communal nor individual or both communal and individual."
In Gestalt therapy there is a phrase "the situation dictates". This is used to indicate that a person is healthy when their response to a situation is guided not so much by their previous decisions and values, but by the immediacy of the situation itself. I suspect this could be extended to encompass group decisions where by attending fully to the situation the group will gradually allow the situation itself to dictate. Pirsig would say the quality in the situation would emerge; Christians would presumedly see God's will elucidated.
I actually don't think it works so simply. I am working on a further development of my thought at present in which the very nature of quality must differ according to my individual history and the developmental stages through which I have passed. Hence in any group the experience of quality will differ between individuals. The democratic solution is for the majority to decide what is quality. This inevitably results in reversion to the mean. I suspect that those who see a deeper quality cannot merely accede to a less enlightened majority. Yet their difficulty is that they cannot directly influence others perception of quality. This was Krishnamurti's dilemma. After decades of inspired teaching, not one person had been transformed.
I don't feel you have quite responded to my 'existential' question.
John B "There are simply thousands of paths on offer; how do I discern those that might save me from those that are degenerate? This is Pirsig's question about discriminating the saviours from the degenerates posed as an existential choice."
Your reply emphasises risking the new, because that is where the dynamic is to be found. Joining the Holy Rollers would be new, and dynamic in some ways, but I suspect a very low quality outcome for me. When I say "few achieve excellence" I certainly accept this is elitist. As Wilber says, "All excellence is elitist". My core question is how do I discern a path, an educational process, in which I must invest much time and effort in order to ascertain the actual quality to be discovered thereby, in advance of experiencing that quality?
My new essay is on the Forum, and I suspect it may have points that are relevant to both this discussion and your most recent post on 'Relations between Levels'. Let me know what you think.
Regards
John B
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