Free Will vs. Determinism doesn't come up in MOQ because MOQ doesn't assume
that objects are the principal "stuff" of the universe. Determinism is a
property of objects, if the entire world is made up of tiny billiard balls
(aka atoms) that collide and the outcome is constantly determinable by the
laws of physics, in theory, if you knew the initial speed and momentum of
EVERY one of those balls, the whole universe would be entirely determinable.
Free will would just be an illusion, destined to happen since the big bang.
In determinism, even the atoms in our brain are destined to react with the
other atoms in the universe and make our decisions for us.
In MOQ, values and patterns of value make up objects and subjects. Electrons
"value" different interactions differently, but don't always behave
predictably. When you look at a million electrons, their behavior is very
predictable, but if you look at one electron, boy is it ever confusing. In a
SOM interpretation, everything is part subject and an object. So even an
electron "values" different states and chooses between them. Free will is
given to everything, within the confines of their static patterns of value.
You have the free will to jump off a bridge, the static patterns of value
that are your instincts and the brain patterns from the teaching that you
have received will dissuade you from doing it, anybody you meet will
dissuade you from doing it, but you could do it. You have the free will to
do it. All the air molecules in a room can chose to move to one corner,
leaving everyone in the room to suffocate, they are each individually
prevented by the inorganic static patterns of value that run the lives of an
air molecule, but it COULD happen. Likewise, a person can decide to go
against their static patterns of value and do something. Sometimes breaking
the static patterns can be a good thing, they can lead to something new, a
new way of looking at the world perhaps, something that could lead to a new
even better static pattern. Sometimes they can lead to a bad thing, a
quality dead end, like jumping off a bridge. Use your intellectual static
level that took a few billion years to develop to tell you which static
levels are worth disregarding to try something new. Don't jump off a bridge.
If you want the experience though, try it with a bungee cord, it could be
fun.
Rob
-----Original Message-----
From: owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk [mailto:owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk]On
Behalf Of gmbbradford@netscape.net
Sent: Friday, August 10, 2001 6:29 PM
To: moq_discuss@moq.org
Subject: Re: MD Self, Free/Determinism : a short essay (again... ;)
Kestrel,
I enjoyed the little tour of Amsterdam you gave us. That was a treat!
And welcome to the discussion.
PIRSIG, Ch. 12
In the Metaphysics of Quality this dilemma [free will vs. determinism]
doesn't come up. To the extent that one's behavior is controlled by static
patterns of quality it is without choice. But to the extent that one
follows Dynamic Quality, which is undefinable, one's behavior is free.
GLENN:
It's a hollow "solution" to the free will/determinism problem.
All he's done is recast a nearly identical problem in MOQ terms. Now the
question becomes, "When am I free to follow the path of DQ and when am I
constrained to follow static patterns of quality?"
KESTREL:
When are we free to follow the path of Dynamic Quality, and when are we
constrained to follow static patterns of quality?
Always.
Okay, maybe that sounds to simple (it is simple), but lets reduce the
question to it's core: "When are we free?"
We are free to choose between dynamic quality and static quality at all
times.
You obviously come down on the side of "Free Will" on this age old question,
which is fair enough. That's your opinion. But if you read Pirsig's words
more carefully, you'll see he's not saying this. He says our behavior is
sometimes constrained by spovs, and when it's not, we can follow DQ and be
free. Your answer of "Always" doesn't jibe with this, because your behaviour
can't always be constrained by spovs and be without choice and
*also* always follow DQ and be free. See?
Glenn
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