Dan, Roger, MD
M:
*seen from the SQ viewpoint* (like the self is), I interact with reality
(DQ+SQ): my dynamic side interacts with the dynamic side of the reality I'm
going to experience. DQ (the flow) is the sum of all the dynamic sides of all
things.
*seen from the DQ viewpoint* DQ is a flow of interactions that originates
static patterns of value, AKA "the experience(d)" >>.
Dan:
> Perhaps it would help if you gave me a real world analogy of what a Dynamic
> viewpoint is.
Marco:
Not easy, I try.
Let's not forget that IMO DQ and SQ are coexisting in Reality... or, in other
words, that Quality has a double nature (dynamic and static). So, each of us,
being real, has a dynamic and a static nature. In this vision, a complete
staticity and a complete dynamism are merely two conceptual limits (maybe a good
analogy could be zero and infinite?): nothing is completely static or completely
dynamic. So obviously the two viewpoints I'm talking about are hypothetical.
So, let's imagine a man living his quite everyday life. Family, job, TV,
shopping... suddenly he feels there's something strange. He doesn't know
exactly why, but he feels something of diverse. Today his home town seems
different, he holds an old camera and takes snapshots, with the hope to fix that
different air in the film. We know how the MOQ describes this process. The
everyday life is static quality. The strange feeling is a sign of DQ at work.
Taking snapshots is the artistic attempt to investigate the feeling, that
actually is something happening not simply to him, or to the town; rather, to
the him-town interaction. The Quality Event is not really taking snapshot, but
it is before, when the feeling comes out and shocks the status quo.
I think it's like to have two natures at work. I imagine his static self , a bit
worry but unable to stop the process, looking at his dynamic side which has
gained a bit of freedom to go and interact freely within the flow. In this
simple case, the static viewpoint depicts the flow as an interaction of the
dynamic side of the man with the dynamic side of the town (that "something" he
has never seen before and wants to fix in a snapshot). On the other hand, I
imagine a dynamic flow of man-town interaction, working in silence, day by day,
maybe for years, growing up to that magic Q-Event. From this hypothetical
viewpoint, the flow has been so long unable to come out, as the precedent static
patterns usually don't allow the flow to come in and provoke changes.
I'm not a writer, and English is not my language, so I just hope I've shown what
I mean. You see that IMHO DQ is not a sort of God, living in another world and
acting upon us, static entities. DQ and SQ are both here, inside and around us,
inseparable parts of the ONE Reality.
M:
> >... I think that DQ is immanent in reality, just like SQ, and
> >that even concepts are part of the flow. Concepts are sort of alive and
> >changing, according to the same behavior of rocks, plants and governments.
> >And rocks, plants and governments are not merely concepts.
Dan:
> This seems confusing to me. A rock does not "behave" like a plant and a
> plant does not "behave" like a government
Marco:
Of course, but they all have a dynamic and a static nature. Plants don't take
snapshots, they just evolve at its time. In this sense I say that there's a
similar behavior.
Dan:
> yet they are all concepts,
> otherwise, what are they?
Marco:
A plant is not a concept. This is the problem we have. There's a plant (a living
organism, a mix of patterns), and there's the concept "PLANT". Not the same.
(See below my answer to Rog).
Dan:
> It seems doubtful we will ever agree on a Dynamic experience for there is no
> way to say what that experience is.
Marco:
Ergo: It seems doubtful we will ever agree on DQ for there is no way to say what
that Quality is. As it is not possible to have two different undefinable things
(as, in that case, we'd have a borderline, thus a definition) you are stating
that Quality and experience are the same. And I've agreed. So, let's eliminate
the term experience, and just call it with its MOQish name: Quality. Or, at
least, let's assume Experience as a synonymous of Quality (like Value, for
example) thus accept that there is a Dynamic Experience (experiencing) and a
Static Experience (the experienced).
Dan:
> I seem to know when something is better than something else, though I
> suspect that's not always the case. Most often it is that which I am more
> comfortable with that seems better. If someone attempts to show me a better
> way to do something than the way I am used to doing it, I don't always see
> it as being better. But maybe I'll try it their way, just out of curiosity.
> And after I try it a few times, suddenly I cannot imagine going back to the
> old way of doing it. Now, is it truly that their way is better? or have I
> simply reached another comfort level?
Marco:
You depict DQ with "what's better". But IMO it is not correct. The concept of
better comes later, when we reach the new static latch. In the example above,
taking snapshot could even be better than attending to the everyday life, but we
will understand it in the end, maybe. IMO DQ comes before... it's the feel
for something better, or as you say, the initial curiosity.
=========
Rog:
> We do not deny experiences nor do we deny patterns of experience, nor do we
> deny the value of concepts. Remember though that the concept of a
> rock/plant/government is a concept (tautology), but that the concept does
> have a referent to a complex set of shared experiences. ICBW though.
Marco:
I agree, the plant I'm looking at is a "set of shared experience" ... I'm also
part of those experiences, thus I'm partly modifying that plant (actually, from
this moment, it will be "the plant I was talking about in that message", and it
will be true only for that particular pine tree in my garden). BUT, it is very
sensible to state that it was a solid pine tree even before this interaction
with me, as, in order to be a pine tree, there's no need of a MOQer typing a
message in August 2001. And IMHO, in order to be a solid pine tree, there's no
need of any concept. ICBW, of course.
thanks,
Marco
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