Although I've been a member of the discussion group for a short period of
time, so far the opinions about a fifth level appear to be more like
extensions of the fourth level, the intellectual level. Let's face it, we
are using the fourth level to posit a fifith level, and this seems like the
dog chasing it's tail. One observation is how different one level is from
another, not in degree, but in "type" - bad word I know, but all I have to
offer. What I mean be this is that each is a different type, or perhaps to
use a word that Robert uses, a different fabric for quality. To use an
analogy, if level 'x' is a sport, such as baseball, then the next level, 'y'
is not just another sport, like say 'basketball' or 'football' but is more
like taking 'sport' and turning them into a 'business'... Sorry, I.m not
very good with analogies.
Barritt
----- Original Message -----
From: "Rob D" <8rjd1@qlink.queensu.ca>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Sunday, September 09, 2001 10:19 AM
Subject: RE: MD The fifth level revisited
> I agree about transcendendance moving very close to DQ itself. However, I
> believe that is because DQ exists outside the realm of static quality and
so
> does the experience of transcendendence. If transcendendence were to be
> placed into a framework where it is understood and the experiences
> categorized, it would cease to be dynamic and becomes static by
definition,
> as mundane as a thought, although more rare. The title of William James
> book, although I have never read it, seems to imply a categorizing method
> for these "religious" experiences. I really should read it.
> I agree with your practical impression of what the next level would be,
only
> in principle however. I do believe transcendental experiences are the key,
> but because of their rarity, it will be almost impossible to create a
static
> level that can be used by the majority of people based on these
experiences
> without the aid of some kind of technology. That being said, in Canada,
> some neuroscientists have already built a magnetized helmet that
stimulates
> brain cells and produces a "spiritual" experience. Those that believed in
> God said that they felt God's presence while wearing it and those that
> didn't believe in God felt like they were at one with the universe.
> It's easy to decide on a word for red, because everybody can see it, just
> try categorizing experiences that are outside language. Most people are
> pretty skeptical that these experiences even exist, and rightly so if
> they've never had them.
> So I definitely believe that a transcendental experience will be the Moral
> high point of the fifth level. Just as the epiphany thought experience is
> the moral high point for the intellectual level, the goodness (the feeling
> you get when you help an old lady cross the street) experience is the
moral
> high point of the social level and the physical pleasure experience is the
> high point of the biological level.
> Mind you, I'm only talking subjectively speaking, the feeling and
> experiences involved with the fifth level. I'm not sure what the net
effect
> would be on society or from an outside observer. The effect of connecting
> the minds of many people who are at "one with the Universe" could easily
be
> to create a "dividual" (my new word :)). Only time and experimental
results
> will tell.
> Rob
>
> ----Original Message-----
> From: owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk
[mailto:owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk]On
> Behalf Of SQUONKSTAIL@aol.com
> Sent: Thursday, September 06, 2001 7:52 PM
> To: moq_discuss@moq.org
> Subject: Re: MD The fifth level revisited
>
> Hi Rob.
>
> I think i see your general thrust.
> May i add one point?
>
> A fifth level will be a static pattern in an evolutionary relationship
with
> DQ.
> Transcendence, is moving very close to DQ itself; therefore, transcendence
> cannot be a fifth level, rather it is that which a fifth level is
responding
> to.
>
> I hope i have put that a good way, even if no one agrees with me!
>
> My own view is one of sharing your view of an incorporation of,
'Technology'
> into previous levels. I see this as a steady process of, 'Enhancement'
> eventually leading to the unpredictable.
> I see a world of people interacting with one world networked virtual
> personality, with, 'Nodes' of individuality - people - dangling from its
> clutches.
> A nightmare really.
> But the nightmare will be the soil from which fifth level is nourished?
>
> Sweet dreams...
>
> Squonk. ;)
>
>
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