Bo,
Yes... Rick is Rick Budd... sorry about the change of moniker but my
previous email account was fatally damaged by some errors so I had to sign
up again under a different name.
Just to give you some more of the picture... I sat in traffic yesterday
as Army troops searched truck payloads entering the Queens-Midtown tunnel...
they are also directing traffic and performing various other functions
around the city. The WTC crater still smokes... it is most visible at night
when illuminated by the powerful lights being used to assist the rescuers
continue through the night. Bomb scares have caused the evacuation of Penn
Station and the Empire State Building (as well as other places). Two people
I know (although, thank God, nobody very close to me) are missing.
I would suggest that you mis-characterize my comments about the MoQ as
an "accusation". Rather, I would say those comments were tantamount to
agreement with your position that the MoQ is not a prescriptive morality, so
to speak.
rick
----- Original Message -----
From: <skutvik@online.no>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Saturday, September 15, 2001 10:35 AM
Subject: MD A perspective on terrorism
> Dear Friends.
> (First of all: I have resigned my telephone to my studio in the hope
> of concentrating better on my painting and only send/receive during
> weekends, so if my messages sound disconnected that's why)
>
> I am moved by the letters concerning the terrorist strikes at the US
> east coast, particularly Rick's (is that Budd?) eye-witness report
> from Brooklyn, but also the Quality perspective. If Rick is Rick I
> recognize his accusation that the MoQ offers no moral guide, and
> as always I reply that it explains - and thereby predicts - but it's no
> "thou shalt" ethics.
>
> Platt and Marco have got it right in seeing this as another aspect of
> the Social/Intellect struggle, the quote from LILA shows it clearly;
> the whole Islamic/West confrontation is. Pirsig says that everything
> in the twentieth century has been, and for my own I may add:
> everything since the Greeks! This interlevel conflict adds to the
> previous ones, but those are so ancient that they are regarded as
> life itself ... besides, there are no levels in the SOM.
>
> Maggie hints to an Intellectual pattern gone wrong, perhaps
> because the term "social" indicates something good in our
> vocabulary, but it merely means collective and the hallmark of that
> value level is that it calls upon the individual to forget itself, and -
> IMO - its "expression" is emotions. The individual is not supposed
> to look objectively on anything - just follow the the leader. Re. the
> immense emotional appeal of the burial scenes and martyrdom
> tradition of the Middle East.
>
> Many call for reason and calm, I join that, but add that the Western
> world - even if strongly intellect-focussed - can't skip social value
> and at a time of crisis must also rely on that latch and appeal to
> patriotism, revenge etc. - without emotions nothing moves. Even so
> there is no danger of our becoming barbarians in the process. This
> is a great palatypus in the SOM and our local intellectuals have
> already started to wring hands at the prospect of a retaliation.
>
> Horse fears that the response will be a reduction of freedom in the
> name of security. I see this in the same light as above. For a while
> this may be the result, but need not be permanent, besides nothing
> can be carried into absurdity - not even "freedom". If you have no
> evil intentions surveillance and security is no threat.
>
> Gerhard tells about his travels and reflections. I would have liked to
> mention a commentary article that appeared in an Oslo newspaper
> VG (13 Sep.) "Those who hate America" it touched some important
> points, but that must be for later discussion.
>
> Jeremy's take on it was so interesting that I must examine it in
> detail.
>
> > From reading Arthur Koestler I discovered that evolution (at least in
> > the biological sense) does often go very wrong. Incorporating Robert
> > M. Pirsig's 'Evolutionary morality' we find that society is the result
> > of evolution and that there is no reason to believe that society
> > itself has evolved without some kind of built in internal error.
>
> Koestler, Wow! He was once my favourite writer/thinker.
>
> > The term 'cultural immune system' does not only apply to intellectual
> > fields of study, but to all forms of evolution. As such, I believe
> > that we can identify that society has an inherent 'cultural immune
> > system' to the intellect.
>
> This is a possible angle Jeremy, but I don't think it's useful (to look
> upon the interlevel struggle as an immune reaction in the lower
> level) because it complicates the "immune system" idea that Pirsig
> postulates INSIDE each level. How the Inorganic's system works I
> don't know, but Biology's is well known; Society's is penal law, and
> Intellect's is psychiatry - at the present - but can have various
> agents (LILA p.334)
>
> > Society does not understand the intellect,
> > it doesn't speak the same language. Thus, we have this kind of
> > 'deafness' that society has toward the intellect which can be
> > witnessed and identified throughout a large portion of mankind's
> > history.
>
> True
>
> > Terrorism, on the other hand, is a means of direct communication with
> > a society. That is because, I believe, terrorism is a direct result of
> > this cultural immune system to the intellect. As Zack De laRocca said
> > 'Riot be the rhyme of the unheard'.
>
> Er...well ...in a way, but on the social level there is just "crime and
> punishment", while "terrorism" occurs when a social focussed
> culture resists an intellect-focused one ...and then only to the
> latter, to the former it is "punishment for an injustice". But Intellect
> has the upper moral hand, make no mistake about that!
>
> > As I write this they are trying to put together an international
> > coalition to try to put an end to terrorism. This I believe will be
> > futile so long as society maintains it's deafness.
>
> About deafness you are right, yet, like Society can't eradicate
> biological value (which shows as crime) only control it, Intellect
> can't put an end to Social values (which may show as "terrorism")
> but can control it. This is best done within its home ground by
> intellects immune system (to psychiatrize it: mentally ill, disturbed
> ...etc.), but this fails when confronted with a social-focused culture.
> Then the response must be the kind that the lower level "hears".
>
> > Today many newspapers carried the headline 'It's War'.
> > But this is no war between nations. Nor is it really a war between
> > terrorists and America. Because societies and terrorists are secondary
> > to the values that create them, this is a conflict of value. Namely,
> > Dynamic and Static Value. What's at stake is the static cultural
> > immune system or deafness toward the intellect.
>
> Again .. in a sense. To the social level Intellect is invisible and it's
> workings just a threat to its own patterns, so in that sense it can
> be said to be static/dynamic, but we see it from a Q-perspective
> and from there it's a struggle between two static patterns.
>
> > I don't condone these vicious attacks because of my respect for life
> > but there should be much care taken in how this situation is handled.
>
> On this we all agree.
> Bo
>
>
>
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