Dave, Jonathan, Rasheed, and All.
3WD wrote:
> Contrast this to Eastern approaches, like Zen, which is primarily
> focused on leading one to this mystical experience in ones lifetime
> and differences in conceivable acts of faith become apparent.
> To devotees of "Western" religions let me say, before you 'flame'
> away, that I understand that I'm neither and know this is a gross,
> overly broad, generalization of both perspectives. And I am sure you
> can point to any number of specific practices and words that disagree
> with these characterizations, but read on just a little further before
> you send them.
I just reproduce this piece from your post - the whole of which I
agree with. I respect your wish not to upset the "devotees of
Western religions" whatever that may mean! Judaism, Islam and
Old-Testament Christianity ...or maybe the latter day "Jesuism"
variety of Christendom? Anyway, to pursue the religion topic ....
About Judaism and Islam my knowledge is limited (except for what
Jonathan and Rasheed have told), but I believe that those differ
from Christianity in the latter's emphasis on the inner/"faith" aspect
- which I interpret as another twist of the SOM screw. OK, there
are two major branches as everybody knows and what I describe is
the Lutheran, Catholicism may be a bit more you-are-good-if-you-
do-good-God-knows-we-aren't-always-thinking-correct-thoughts and
as such more like its Semitic relatives.
In the period after the "incidents" in America religion researchers
have had their hey-day in an effort to explain what the various faiths
and what they "say" to the respective followers, but when it comes
to the Eastern variants I feel that they miss several points, at least
re. Zen and Taoism - maybe Hinduism too if Pirsig is right. Long
before I came to know Pirsig I had read Alan Watts' "The Way of
Zen" and had thought a lot about what this "way" implied and how
the eastern tradition differed from the western i a general sense.
I did not understood everything (to say the least), but one passage
made a deep impact on me ....even then, after learning about the
MoQ it became quite plain:
> (quote) ...but Taoism must on no account be understood as a revolution
> against convention, although it has sometimes been used as a pretext
> for revolution. Taoism is a way of liberation which never comes by way
> of revolution, since it is notorious that most revolutions establish
> worse tyrannies than they destroy. To be free from convention is not
> to spurn it but not to be deceived by it. It is to be able to use it
> as an instrument instead of being used by it. The West has no
> recognized institution corresponding to Taoism because our
> Hebrew-Christian spiritual tradition identifies the Absolute -God -
> with the moral and logical order of convention. This might almost be
> called a major cultural catastrophe, because it weighs the social
> order with excessive authority, inviting just those revolutions
> against religion and tradition which have been so characteristic of
> Western history. It is one thing to feel oneself in conflict with
> socially sanctioned conventions, but quite another to feel at odds
> with the very root and grounds of life, with the Absolute itself. The
> latter feeling nurtures a sense of guilt so preposterous that it must
> issue either in denying one's own nature or in rejecting God. Because
> the first of these alternatives is ultimately impossible - like
> chewing off one's own teeth - the second becomes inevitable, where
> such pallatives as the confessional are no longer effective. As is the
> nature of revolutions the revolution against God gives place to the
> worse tyranny of the absolutist state - worse because it cannot even
> forgive and because it recognizes nothing outside the powers of its
> jurisdiction. (unquote)
What Watts says is that tying social moral/value to (a) God is
wrong because it's impossible to change them without a feeling of
revolt against reality itself. If God has said - through the holy
scriptures - that women are to 'shut up in assemblies' or 'cover their
hair' or that one animal is unclean ...etc. it becomes "sinful" to
break the rule. This is part of Christianity too and I could tell about
our Norwegian debate if homosexuals are to become priests of the
Church, but will refrain ...it's too idiotic) during the the Age of
Enlightenment this resulted in the French Revolution because the
rights of king and noblesse were constituted by God himself and
could only be changed unless a revolution against God. Therefore it
all came to have its atheistic flavour .....yet inherited the same
demand of devotion - this time to the revolution!!!! But - as Watts
says - this time without divine grace something that resulted in the
terror.
This is then what sets the Eastern attitude apart from the
Western/Semitic one. They have as Pirsig claims introduce the
quality idea long before the Europeans got out of the woods and/or
the Middleeasterners in from the deserts, and is the reason for all
our talk about inscrutability. It's clear as glass once we apply the
MoQ. Another Watt assertion is that (in China) Confucianism is the
disciplining of the individual while Taoism is a way to undo he ill-
effects of this discipline. In Scandinavia we have this idea that
children are "wounded" if not allowed to do what they fancy, and -
correct enough - to an extent they are, but the we don't have the
means to heal these wounds because SOM only have the "inner
being" versus "Society" and in the West the individual's inner
wellbeing is the important . Which makes for a youth rebellion each
generation. This may not be a problem in the Islam/Jew world but
only because society (other) is the focus, but neither has SOLVED
the problem like in the East ...and in the MoQ.
In moqish: The social level's purpose is to control the biological one
and Intellect's is to control the social, all produce "damage" to the
lower, above is (only) described social mankind's (Confucianism)
"damage" to biological mankind, while Taoism's "repair" isn't
possible because in the SOM tradition there are no such
distinction, we have inherited the God-is-Society idea that screws it
all up. I'll not pursue this further only repeat that the Western
sphere is the next candidate for a quantum jump into an
easternlike insight and the MoQ is the WAY.
Hope this is not too patronizing.
Bo.
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