Dear Platt,
You suggest 28/10 11:05 -0500 to add Von Mises and Hayek to my
list of economists who "first developed neo-classical economics
at the end of the 19th century". They did not appear in my list,
because they did not write at the end of the 19th century. I
wouldn't count them among the originators of neo-classical
economics but they indeed played an important role in spreading
and further developing the ideas.
You further write "the fact that you and I and Rog are wealthy
(we wish) is irrelevant to issue of whether the free
enterprise system works to improve the lives of human beings."
You're quite right. The issue however was NOT "whether the free
enterprise system works ..." BUT whether the "system of ideas"
that we identified (which is not necessarily the same as "system
operating in actual practice") legitimizes wealth. I didn't use
the fact of my and Rog's relative wealth as an argument, but the
fact of his using this system of ideas to legitimize it.
The free enterprise system (which is not the system of ideas
legitimizing it) obviously does work to improve the lives of some
human beings and to exclude others from its benefits. This is
nothing to hold against it as any social system does that. And
yes, obviously it produces more material wealth than any previous
social system, so -to the extent that material wealth is a
measure of improvement of people's lives- on average it improves
the lives of human beings more than previous social systems. To
the extent that it is immoral from the point of view of an
intellectual pattern of values containing values like "freedom,
justice and brotherhood" or "justice, peace and integrity of
creation", any previous social system is immoral to at least the
same extent.
I do not hold that a central command system is an alternative for
a free enterprise system. The free enterprise system should in my
view of history be seen as a global social system (not a national
one). It predates attempts of semi-peripheral states INSIDE this
global free enterprise system to influence the global
distribution of wealth by taking more political control of
national economies. A centrally commanded national economy
functions INSIDE the free enterprise system in a way comparable
to a huge (state-)capitalist corporation. The lack of freedom
and sovereignty of its subjects is comparable to the lack of say
of most employees in a capitalist corporation (but not the same
and obviously contributive to the lack of success of these
attempts of semi-peripheral states).
So what is exactly your issue with me?
My issue with you is, that in my opinion your "immigrant who
arrived in this country penniless" did not only "become wealthy
thanks to hard work, some luck, and the opportunities afforded by
the free enterprise
system", but also thanks to the semi-peripheral and later core
role of the USA in the world economy. Not only the freedom of
enterprise in the USA but also the lack of opportunities for say
a Honduran banana worker or a Dominican sugar worker to "build a
business starting from nothing" contributed to his wealth. I do
not need to step in the shoes of that immigrant to know that they
didn't experience the contribution of these others to his/her
wealth.
If your country is run by kleptocrats supported by the foreign
policy of core states the question "what can I do for my country"
is obviously less relevant than the question "what can I do
against my country and the other countries supporting it".
You ask further "why Pirsig, the author of the MOQ, shouldn't be
considered its most credible and valid 'authority'".
Pirsig is not the author of THE MoQ in my opinion, but of A MoQ,
which is becoming a smaller and smaller bit of the whole the more
is written about it (especially in this mailing list) by others.
THE MoQ is the intellectual pattern of values WE collectively
experience in this torrent of ideas. Any individual person's
(including Pirsig's) experience only represents A MoQ. I am not
aware of Pirsig listening in on this torrent of ideas and being
able to interpret authoritatively the pattern we experience in
it.
With friendly greetings,
Wim
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