THE Q:
What do the patterns of higher quality have that those of destruction, decay
and disorder don't?
SOJ (excerpts):
Point one about this hypothetical library. If the library was being
examined 5,000 years ago all the books "in English" would be jibberish at the
time and yet if they were examined right now they would be perfectly
understandable while the "Sanskrit" books would be nearly impossible to
decipher. ...
However in a culture with no books ... then the
ENTIRE library would be jibberish - just decorations of black on white. ...
In your hypothetical library, SQ is rampant, as it is in the real world all
around us. DQ however
has plenty of breathing room even, and remains just as mysterious and
elusive as it is in real life.
The history book of the Peloponnesian war is mildly interesting to us now
but would be of
supreme importance to poor Thucydides scribbing on his tablets.
ROG:
Yes, a library or a book are actually only parts of the pattern. Implicit in
each is a culture of beings that can interpret and decode the books. DQ does
have lots of breathing room. And the good patterns do change over time.
SOJ:
Not to be crude but this to me brings the image of a triumphant explanation
after a long search
for the origin of feces. SQ is the lifeless excrement that DQ produces and
then leaves
behind in its wake. It might be warm but that doesn't mean its alive. We
are little dung beetles
who build our homes from that scat but knowing it comes from DQ's leavings
is no reason to
celebrate it.
ROG:
Yuck!
SOJ:
Patterns are interesting and stable and they seem to be the prey hunted by
the "academic" wing of
this discussion list, but they are lifeless. Change is inevitable and
Martin Luther King gained little
from a thorough knowledge of existing patterns and a lot from knowing how to
pursue the DQ that
led to his successes.
ROG:
Who are the 'academic wing'? Are they bad guys or good guys?
For the record, there has been plenty of pursuit of the dynamic in this forum
over the past 4 years. References are available upon request. (but not to
the evil academicians)
Seriously though, let me ask you some questions on this position. First, can
you support your statement on MLK? Second, would you prefer the Q to be "What
separates the pursuit of Dynamic Quality from destruction, decay and
disorder?" If so, go for it!
SOJ:
Whether "birthing" new (and higher quality) SQ or destroying SQ, DQ remains
dynamic
and is one and the same. Despite the fact that SQ follows DQ I think it is
imperative to
say here that SQ is not "under" or "less Quality than" or in any way lesser
than DQ! SQ has
the same eternity and imperviousness to destruction that DQ does!
ROG:
Does this make SQ into impervious, eternal "dung" then in your model? If DQ
is not better than sq, is DQ really "Dynamic Scat?"
LOL
SOJ:
I'm really quite underschooled so forgive my elementary logic here, but as
long as Stephen
Hawkins' "time arrow" points in the same direction, SQ patterns CANNOT be
prevented from
being formed from DQ. A human being may eat food but that food cannot
disappear, only be
processed into different forms (or excremented untouched). I don't think
your "room" needs
any help or needs "solving" at all. SQ "rooms" are impervious to damage or
destruction except
from DQ (and vice versa).
ROG:
I hate all the poop metaphors!
But, something does need solving. Physics would tell us via the 2nd law of
thermodynamics that we should expect to see not patterns, but disorder. There
are special patterns to the dynamic process by which patterns develop and
gain in depth and span over time. This doesn't mean that you have to be
interested in learning them though. However, failure to do so would, it
seems to me, to be the antithesis of the Pursuit of DQ and of the path you
say MLK took.
If one can't tell quality from destruction, I question whether one has a
useful moral guide, and whether one would do much GOOD. And to regress back
to your favorite metaphor...Shit happens!
Rog
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