Hi Rog:
> ROG:
> In other words, 10 living beings are not just better than one, they also
> are better than 9.
So 11 are better than 10, 101 better than 100, 1001 better than 1000,
ad infinitum? I'm not sure how far you want to go with this but I guess
the logic would indicate China to be the most dynamic nation on earth.
> ROG:
> So 10 potential firsts for an open and dynamic mind to benefit from. Those
> of us trying to learn and grow can benefit immensely from other's values
> and by actively allowing our values to interact and conflict. Capturizing
> and summarizing our progress (or lack there of) along the way certainly
> can't hurt.
To paraphrase Thomas Carlyle, "I do not believe in the collective
wisdom of individual values."
PLATT:
> My point being that it is an individual responding intuitively to DQ that
> determines potentially useful higher patterns of quality rather than a
> group. Thus, those who emphasized a personal PATH to address the issue
> seemed to me more in line with the MOQ than solutions involving some form
> of static intellectual criteria.
>
> ROG:
> If the best this group can do is recommend we go sit under a banyan tree,
> then we should unsubscribe today and start sitting. This personal path part
> of the solution, though crucial, is inadequate. Embrace static
> intellectual degeneracy!
I think sitting under a banyan tree has a lot going for it. So does Pirsig,
as the following passage illustrates:
"The Metaphysics of Quality says that what sometimes accidentally
occurs in an insane asylum but occurs deliberately in a mystic retreat
is a natural human process called dhyana in Sanskrit. In our culture
dhyana is ambiguously called "meditation." Just as mystics
traditionally seek monasteries and ashrams and hermitages as
retreats into isolation and silence, so are the insane treated by
isolation in places of relative calm and austerity and silence.
Sometimes, as a result of this monastic retreat into silence and
isolation the patient arrives at a state Karl Menninger has described as
"better than cured." He is actually in better condition than he was before
the insanity started. Phaedrus guessed that in many of these
"accidental" cases, the patient had learned by himself not to cling to
any static patterns of ideas-cultural, private or any other.
Dhyana was what this boat was all about. It's what Phaedrus had
bought it for, a place to be alone and quiet and inconspicuous and able
to settle down into himself and be what he really was and not what he
was thought to be or supposed to be. In doing this he didn't think he
was putting this boat to any special purpose. That's what the purpose
of boats like this has always been . . . and seaside cottages too . . . and
lake cabins . . . and hiking trails . . . .and golf courses. . . . It's the need
for dhyana that is behind all these.
Vacations too . . . how perfectly named that is . . . a vacation, an
emptying out . . . that's what dhyana is, an emptying out of all the static
clutter and junk of one's life and Just settling into an undefined sort of
tranquillity." (LILA, Chap. 30)
Roger, we do not disagree about the necessity for both the individual
and the collective. Rather it's a matter of emphasis. My focus is on the
conductor and the soloist while yours is on the orchestra. All are
necessary to achieve a memorable performance. In bringing together
the disparate views of this thread, you have brought harmony out of
cacophony and we are all the better for it even if some of us didn't care
for the finale. I hope others will exhibit the same patience and skill in
conducting future discussions, but the standard you've set will be hard
to meet.
Platt
P.S. What is a banyan tree anyway?
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Sat Aug 17 2002 - 16:01:46 BST