Just chiming in,
RISKYBIZ9@aol.com wrote:
Studies of our nearest relatives -- chimps and bonobos -- is frightening.
Not only do males routinely fight for dominance and control of breeding, but
rival troops will go to war and will exterminate each other. Studies of
prehistoric man reveal that murder was the major cause of death in males,
with some estimates as high as 25% of males dieing in fights.
Andy: It is my understanding that this is true in the case of chimpanzees, but
not in the case of bonobos. Both chimps and bonobos share 98% of our genes, but
have radically different social structures. It is true that chimps wage war and
males compete for control over the whole group. However, bonobos are much more
egalitarian and rarely show aggression toward one another. Sexual relationships
differ remarkably between the two primates also. Bonobos use sex as a means for
resolving conflict and will engage in sex for both reproduction and pleasure
(both parties). Male chimps will rape their female counterparts and the act is
over faster than it begins.
RISKYBIZ9@aol.com wrote:
Social patterns and modern man have progressed together to higher and higher
levels of cooperation. Humans have developed or evolved an innate moral
sense.
Andy: We have definately progressed toward higher levels of social complexity.
but this has involved a combination of competition and cooperation. I am afraid
that brute savagery has maintained a presence throughout this progression. To
say that we have developed or evolved an innate moral sense is nonsense.
RISKYBIZ9@aol.com wrote:
we are complex beings, not all good and not all bad, but in general the
co-evolution
of man and society has been from brute savagery toward harmony (with lots of
stumbles on the way).
Andy: I think this characterization of human nature as progression from brute
savagery to harmony is wrong and can just as easily be turned around using all
the available evidence. The use of the term "co-evolution" for man and society
is not accurate in my view. Humans co-evolve with other species in our
environment. Social and cultural evolution exists on a whole new level.
Although man could co-evolve with society in the very long term, we have not had
the chance to evolve at a rate equal to what society has evolved since we emerged
from the African savanah roughly 30K yo. Thus, genetically we don't differ much
from these original homo sapiens. Whether we are brute savages or harmonious
social beings by nature can be supported by either the chimp example or bonobo.
Regards,
Andy
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