Hello! This subject (the MoQ) is fairly new to me,
and I want to warn anyone reading this that my ideas
might be full of holes for a while, but the topic you
are discussing is most interesting! I would like to
participate!
If I understand correctly, the discussion seems to
revolve around trying to decide where society stands
within the Metaphysics of Quality. If so, I would be
inclined to believe that society (Pirsig's giant
mentioned in Lila) could be seen as a complex network
of individuals (separate beings of intelligence)
functioning together. I guess in that respect, it
resembles something like the internet. I might be way
off, but "society" I think, is not only a network of
social values, but intellectual values as well. Any
thoughts? Ha, I think I've managed to confuse myself,
now...
Raymond
--- Andrew Bahn <abahn@nycap.rr.com> wrote:
> John Beasley wrote:
> To return to the relationship between social and
> intellectual realms, I
> think Pirsig is generally correct in asserting that
> social values are
> static, and can only change or develop insofar as
> they are challenged by
> individuals who can perceive or adjust to Dynamic
> Quality.
>
> Andy: I think it is because I am coming at it from
> a different angle. When
> Pirsig speaks of the intellectual and social levels,
> I immediately fit it within
> the complex systems paradigm. But he is speaking of
> values and quality. And I
> think he means for these values to be in
> competititon with each other. In this
> case the intellectual values will reign supreme over
> social values, according to
> Pirsig. Okay, I am not sure I fully agree, but I
> can accept this. My point is
> that society is a result of interactions between
> individuals. The social fabric
> that holds us together is these connections.
> Together we form "society." Yes,
> individuals can challenge these connections, remove
> themselves from the web, but
> the accomplishments that we make as humans are a
> result of this web called
> society, not the individual. If we associate
> intellectual values with the
> individual and social values with society (the
> giant), then the social values
> will be higher. But, perhaps, intellectual values
> are also formed in the social
> level and these are the dynamic components of
> society. This is where Pirsig
> loses me. Of this I am sure: If we could place an
> individual from a hunter and
> gatherer tribe in prehistory with the highest IQ
> ever recorded in an isolated
> environment with an infinite lifespan, this
> individual could never develop
> langauge, mathematics, complex technology, or a MOQ
> by himself. Society is
> necessary for any advancements our species has made
> over the past 10,000 years.
>
> regards,
> Andy
>
> >
>
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