--- Marco <marble@inwind.it> wrote:
> MARCO TO ALL RATIONAL INTELLECTUALS
>
> Namely: Platt, Horse, Erin, 3wDave, Roger, Scott,
> Jonathan
>
> (this thread reminds me the old good threads on
> MF.... )
>
> well, it seems I'm the only one suggesting Human
> Rights. Let me count on my
> side just Wim, if he agrees, whose suggestion
> -ethics- is somewhat similar.
> Actually ethics is a duty, while human rights are,
> exactly, rights. Two
> faces of the same coin.
>
> The majority seems to agree on logic, math, reason
> and so on. Well, can I
> say I'm amazed?
>
Marco,
I think the source of the disagreement is in asking
whether we are discussing the values of the way in
which one level "triumphs over" the lower one, or
discussing the nature of values within a level. And
this is because I think Pirsig's list is misleading.
Which is not to say I disagree with the main point --
that different levels have different types of values.
But I do think the list entries are not about how a
higher level triumphs over the lower.
First, on the inorganic level, there is no lower
level, so necessarily the "laws of nature" can only be
the on the inorganic level. Then, on the biological
level, I see the "law of the jungle" as how biological
creatures interact with each other, not how they
overcome the inorganic level. They overcome the
inorganic by using the inorganic in new and strange
ways (DNA, etc.).
Then on the social level, "laws" seem to me to be
mainly concerned with maintaining social cohesion,
rather than overcoming the biological. That is, now
that we are *in* societies, how do we protect
ourselves from each other, not about protecting
ourselves from wild beasts. And also, we overcome the
biological by exploiting biological values (eg,
growing crops, breeding animals).
So on the intellectual level, I see reason as
characterizing good intellectual activity. You are
right to say that human rights are the way in which
the intellect triumph over the social, but human
rights are a social value, devised by the intellect to
promote the intellect.
- Scott
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