Wim: Thanks for your answer about static latches. Your honesty is like a
cool drink. Thanks also for the thread names of the recent political
discussions. Maybe I'll take a look, but I'm having trouble just keeping up
with the new stuff. Just a few comments...
DMB said...
'The distinction you make between static patterns and static
latches doesn't make any sense to me.'
Wim said...
You are right. A static pattern of values IS a latch for Dynamic
Quality.
Wim quoted the author...
Pirsig 'Lila' ch. 11:
'A Dynamic advance is meaningless unless it can find some static
pattern with which to protect itself from degeneration back to
the conditions that existed before the advance was made.
Evolution can't be a continuous forward movement. It must be a
process of ratchet like steps in which there is a Dynamic
movement forward up some new incline and then, if the result
looks successful, a static latching-on of the gain that has been
made; then another Dynamic advance, then another static latch.'
Wim admitted...
I didn't find any statement of Pirsig connecting static latching
and replication. Hey, maybe I'm original! Do you think making
that connection needs Pirsig's backup to be valid?
DMB's fresh reply...
Well, not necessarily, but I'm more suspicious of the validity of any
MOQisms that can't be backed up by the inventor. As they say, extraordinary
claims require extraordinary evidence. On the other hand, I'm excited about
the Wilberization of the MOQ. That makes sense to me, even though Lila makes
no reference to him whatsoever.
Wim explained that...
'Pattern' implies 'repetition' of experience (similar Quality
Events) over time or over space. The only obvious explanation for
repetitive experience is some 'mechanism' that replicates the
circumstances 'valuing' this experience. These circumstances must
be preserved or reproduced over time and/or copied from one spot
to the other.
DMB's fresh remarks...
Oh, I see what you're getting at. Its not unreasonable to say that patterns
imply repetition, but I think it is the wrong implication in a MOQ context.
Its true that the word "pattern" has various meanings, but Pirsig's static
patterns refer to what is stable. It seems he's talking about a lasting
configuration or design, a consistent arrangement, a persistent form or
shape. I think his meaning is more along those lines. In fact, as I
mentioned, I think his static patterns are replicated or reproduced or
whatever only so they can change. It opens static patterns to Dynamic change
and adds to their ability to proliferate. See what I mean?
Wim...
The distinction between (type of) static latch and (type of)
static pattern of values may not be necessary. I distinguished it
in order to clarify my answer to the question
'how to distinguish between levels of static quality'.
Fresh DMB...
Right. I think the distinction is unnecessary, even a little misleading. To
answer the question of how to distinguish between levels I think we have to
work with all the real world examples he provides. They're woven throughout
the book. In fact, I think that method is a very good one because a
metaphysical system that can't explain the real world isn't worth very much.
Of course, for this method to work one has to understand the MOQ and have an
accurate idea about the specific examples. But that's another post...
Wim...
Pirsig doesn't answer this question (as far as I know) anywhere. That's
probably because it has never conclusively been answered on this
list. Pirsig left us to answer it for ourselves... If you know
another answer (than my 'by replication mechanism') that is just
as generally applicable for all levels, please tell us.
Hot from the oven DMB...
He doesn't provide an infinite number of examples, but there is enough to
how it works. From there we should be able to extrapolate and, more or less,
examine anything in the world. As I understand it, the only rule that can be
applied to all levels is the code of art.
With friendly greetings, Wim
Right back at you.
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