Hi Glenn,
Let me try again...
I think you are doing Pirsig a disservice by assuming that similarities in
his language and concepts with "pomos" implies that he is -- like many of
them -- a cultural relativist. He isn't.
He does say that society comes out of biology and that science comes out of
society. These are both fairly obvious statements, and they are both well
documented in history, philosophy and science literature. Furthermore, Pirsig
acknowledges that because each is derived from its preceding level, that each
is affected or is an extension or is limited or biased or what-have-you by
its origins. Again, how can this not be the case?
As an example, it is well documented that Newton, Descartes, Kepler,
Copernicus and other major figures in the development of the scientific
method were heavily influenced by their religious mythos. As physicist Lee
Smolin wrote in The Life Of The Cosmos, 'their search for truth was a search
for God." with the exception of Galileo, "Almost every one of the founders of
physics write as if their search and the search for God were one and the
same." Even into the 20th century, Albert "God doesn't play dice" Einstein
yearned to know the secrets of "the old one." Western natural philosophy was
a gradual transition phase between the religious mythos of the 16th and 17th
Centuries that viewed God as rational and that encouraged understanding of
the universe through rationality and direct (unmediated by church or
authority) experience.
Despite your dismissive comment that "...this is a kind of argument that
bothers me. First a claim is made and then wishy-washy excuses are made..." I
will again stress that it is entirely reasonable to view the scientific
method as demanding a particularly narrow biological/social perspective, and
to expect that the reason you don't find examples of exhorbitant
culturally-varied versions of science (Latvian Sheepherder science anybody?)
is that the process of science education shares and reinforces one
particularly useful worldview (and I use the term in its widest
common-sense/religious/philosophical/scientific way). Absent some key
features of this accident of Western civilization, you are left with
something less-than-science.
GLENN:
I've never explicitly heard Pirsig to hold such a position either, but if
you read some pomo (postmodern) literature you will see the same tell-tale
catch-phrases that Pirsig uses: "socially derived" and "socially mediated".
ROG:
You are possibly reading things into the MOQ that aren't there and then
faulting it for being inconsistent.
G:
I think he's either been genuinely influenced by these ideas and those of
Science Studies, or he's simply eager to reiterate anything that knocks
science down a notch or two that sounds remotely plausible, even if he
doesn't fully buy into it himself.
R:
And he gives it top billing? Pirsig isn't taking cheap shots at science, he
is repeating the common sense view that we are influenced by our origins. He
views science as having a defect and he hypothesises that this defect may be
related to the need for science to free itself from social domination. (I am
not arguing that he successfully proves this last point either)
G:
I was wondering, however, what social
patterns could possibly influence the work done in physics and chemistry.
R:
Newton and the other parents of modern science have captured this influence
in their writings. Their myth proved to be extremely useful.
A few final points:
1) Pirsig didn't hint of conspiracy in science -- you did.
2) "Pre-intellectual set of beliefs" is most definitely not an oxymoron,
especially within the MOQ.
3) Science is more dynamic and a higher level of evolution based partially
upon its provisional nature. Theories are accepted and latched onto until
better theories come along. Theories lead to new questions, which leads to
more experimentation which leads to new technology and instrumentation which
leads to new data which leads to new theories which cause new questions which
influence adjoining fields which leads to new measurements which requires a
new mathematical technique which...
Hope this is of some value,
Rog
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