Erin wrote to DMB...
I completely agree with you. Pirsig's many references to William Blake
support that seeing the light and his mystic experiences is more intense
then
a simple dissociative state. David the mental picture I get of you is the
doctor in the movie "Altered States" who studies schizophrenia for mystical
reasons.
DMB replies...
"Altered States" was a good movie, but I haven't seen it in a long time and
don't really remember the doctor. As far as a picture goes, please imagine
that I look like Brad Pitt. Its not really true, but you could imagine me
that way as a favor. :-) Actually, I suppose you're not too far off the
mark. I've always been interested in certain kinds of psychology. We share a
fondness for Jung, but I'm also thinking of guys like James Hillman and R.D.
Laing. Recently I'd been trading e-mails with a guy who just graduated (PhD)
with a degree in Jungian psychology. He did his thesis on the myth of
Orpheus and so I gobbled up his words like so much lobster tail. I guess
this kind of interest partly explains my fondness for Pirsig too.
Erin...
I am struggling at what the MOQ says about mysticism. I was fascinated by
Pirsig claim that reason a psychiatrist can not distinguish a psychotic from
a
mystic is that they can not distinguish patterned and unpatterned reality.
When I read about Pirsig and Jung describing mystical experiences and then
outsiders labeling them as psychotic episodes I get confused at what is
really
going on. In helping me clarify how to separate mystic episodes from
psychotic episodes I want you to ask you a couple of questions.
1)Do you think you can overdo the dynamic? Why or why not
2) Which attitude do you approach chaos and why?
a) living on the edge of chaos
b) jumping right in
DMB...
I think the Pirsigian distinction goes something like this; Insanity is a
culture of one, a set of static patterns not recognized by anyone else. The
mystical experience is the abandonment of all static patterns altogether.
But adding some other thoughts, some from outside of the MOQ, I'd say that
insanity is often a case of swimming in the mythos. Its a case of banging
around in the collective unconscious in a wild sort of way. Its like the
insane are reaching into that well looking for a cure. This, I think, is
what Pirsig is refering to when he talked about the former psychotic being
"better than cured". Laing talks about this too. He says that we ought to
just let them go through it, help them through it so they can come out on
the other side. This is slippery stuff. Am I making sense?
1) Sure, one can overdo the dynamic. Mystics who remained in a mystical
state too long would simply die. Likewise, a culture can take only so much
change before its destroyed. But I have a hunch that reality itself has a
built-in wisdom about the limits of dynamic change. Its just a hunch.
2) hmmm. Chaos? I'm not sure what you're asking here.
Thanks,
DMB
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