David, Platt,
David Buchanan wrote:
>
> DMB to Bo:
> > Well, OK. I'm fixated. But at least Pirsig is with me in this. He sees no
> > level beyond the intellect either. (DQ is beyond, but its not a level and
> > we can't use it to describe anything because its beyond words too.)
> . . . . .
> >Here's the thing - we
> > agree that the MOQ is beyond SOM. Beyond all the frustrating
> > misunderstandings, we really disagree where the MOQ belongs. You say its
> > beyond the intellect and I say its not. Pirsig is with me on that too. His
> > MOQ has no 5th level.
>
> Platt said...
> Pirsig is with you? Then you are going to have to explain away the
> following from Chap. 13.
>
> "First, there were moral codes that established the supremacy of
> biological life over inanimate nature. Second, there were moral codes
> that established the supremacy of the social order over biological life-
> conventional morals -proscriptions against drugs, murder, adultery,
> theft and the like. Third, there were moral codes that established the
> supremacy of the intellectual order over the -social order-democracy,
> trial by jury, freedom of speech, freedom of the press. Finally there's a
> fourth Dynamic morality which isn't a code. He supposed you could call
> it a "code of Art" or something like that, but art is usually thought of as
> such a frill that that title undercuts its importance. The morality of the
> brujo in Zuni-that was Dynamic morality."
>
> Platt said...
> Why would Pirsig even consider that DQ and Art could be connected, or
> that a level higher than intellect might be called a "code of Art?" He
> "sees" the possibility with his supposition. He leaves the door open a
> crack, allowing for a possible future when art is not thought of as a frill,
>
> but essential.
> IMO, the MOQ can be considered art in the same way that scientists
> find art in efficacious mathematical formulas. In both it's aesthetic
> harmony that counts.
>
> DMB says in response....
> How about if I explain it without explaining it AWAY? I can see what you're
> saying, but disagree simply because a code is not a level. The code of art,
> "which isn't a code", is about DQ acting on the static levels as a creative
> and evolutionary force. Its not about the conflict between two levels, but
> rather between all levels and DQ itself. Granted, if and when a fifth level
> ever emerges it will be the code of art that lets it happen, but at this
> point any talk of a fifth level is pure speculation. It took several billion
> years to get this far and at this point the 4th level is still under
> development. I should add that the term "art" in this code of art isn't to
> be taken too literally, as you clearly recognize. Bohr and the Brujo need
> not be painters or poets to be considered artists in this Pirsigian sense.
> And I think we agree that the author uses the term because he's refering to
> the effect of the undifferentiated AESTHETIC continuum upon the static
> world.
>
On the question of whether one can speak of artistic endeavor as another
level. I'm inclined to say no, because it is the creation of new
patterns, rather than being a pattern of its own. That is, how is it
different from DQ? But I'm also inclined to say yes, since maybe there
are patterns to creativity (Koestler, for one, wrote a book on this: The
Act of Creation, though I don't remember it being all that successful),
and also because I like to think that "everybody an artist (and yes,
that can include mathematicians, scientists, metaphysicians, and
brujos)" sounds like a plausible next stage for humanity.
As to the time factor, you're ignoring that the intellectual level is
different from the preceding levels in that it can, and does (as we are
doing here) examine itself. That, after all, is what philosophy, at
least since Kant, is largely about: intellect seeing the limits of
intellect. This has reached a fever pitch in postmodernism, so one might
wonder if the intellectual level is already in its last stages (not in
the sense that it disappears, but that it ceases to be the top dog).
- Scott
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