ERIN:
Risky excluding nonmonetary help I always thought that the US did a lot
but when the percentage is shown it shows we aren't really doing all that
much. It is not about how much we have done but how much we have done in
comparison to what we HAVE...
Bill Maher is trying to point out the percentage of what we give/ what we
have.
Betsy want to sing praises for the generous Bill Gates and tell the third
world people stop whining about their starvation. Although Betsy does raises
good points about our other contributions and the corruption of third world
systems it is a little sad that you can agree that .5% is generous.
RISKY:
Bill Maher made it in a deceptive TV-logic way though with his throwing out 3
numbers compared to each other with a non common base. If we were casually
watching the show and didn't read the transcript he could have fooled us too.
Betsy did NOT tell people to stop whining about starving. She told people to
not whine about our NEED TO EXPLAIN OUR PROSPERITY. The 4 other participants
pulled a dishonest (or at least sloppy) slight of hand that marginalized her
view by putting words in her mouth. Read her words below.
I am not sure I said .5% was generous (but it was a long post so I could
have). The goal was never generosity though. The goal is to maximize the
use of worldwide wealth and resources. The sad excuse for a dialogue in the
transcript avoids that discussion altogether. How does the US compare to
other nations? Other wealthy nations? What are other exports worth
(technology, science, business know-how, democratic institutions, medicine,
jobs)? Has the money we have given gone to good causes or has it gone to
exploitation and corrupt cronies, or to fund dependency or to encourage
overpopulation? What has worked? What hasn't? What could we do with the
money instead of handing it out? Could we spend more for global defense?
More for technology breakthroughs or medical knowledge? Pollution control or
environmental protection? Should the aid be from personal sources or
governmental?
With that said, my guess is that much of the aid we give goes to ill rather
than to good. I also guess that -- all things considered -- we give more
than other developed countries in percentage terms. But these are only
guesses, and they certainly don't suggest that we couldn't improve things by
giving in better ways or in larger volume. A rational discussion could lead
to an answer. Let's NOT assume that giving creates quality though, or that
1% is better than .5%.
>Betsy:
>Yes.
>The things we export, just in terms of technology and knowledge, as well as
>goods and services, are extraordinary.
>I'm sick, frankly, of this whining from the third world that somehow we
>should
>have to explain our prosperity and our hard work and our ingenuity.
>We should be more like them.
>Sure, we can live in caves and rub sticks together.
>They should be more like us, Shakara.
>Taiwan doesn't have any natural resources, but it has extraordinary wealth
>because it has a relatively free economic and political system.
>Cuba, however, has extraordinary natural resources and its people are
>starving
>because of corrupt political systems.
>When people change the political system --
>And become more free market, they can be like us.
>Ian:
>Now, wait a minute.
>You were talking about people whining because they were hungry and
>disadvantaged.
>
>RISKY:
>No she didn't ...
>
ERIN:
Well she kind of did Risky. "I'm sick, frankly, of this whining from
the third world that somehow we should have to explain our prosperity and our
hard work and our ingenuity." I'm sorry but explaining our prosperity and
the means to prosperity (involves interest in other countries) is a great way
to mimimize victims without the cycle of victimology.
R:
She used the word 'explain' in the sense of "justify". She was arguing that
we should show them the way, but that we shouldn't have to justify our
success as if it came at their expense or that we are evil or greedy for
being successful. (As Bill and Howie were ranting)
Risky
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