i really enjoyed your post. it was spot on - great stuff!
keep it coming,
all the best
gav
>From: David Buchanan
>Reply-To: moq_discuss@moq.org
>To: "'moq_discuss@moq.org'"
>Subject: MD Progressing beyond mirrors
>Date: Sat, 16 Mar 2002 17:18:59 -0700
>
>Erin, Platt, Roger, Wim and all MOQers:
>
>I think its pretty clear that disagreement and criticism really bugs some
>people. For some reason it seems to bother some people more than others.
>This is unfortunate insofar as it tends to turn honest debate into an
>exercise in defensive posturing. This is not good insofar as it turns
>discussion into a clash of egos. Roger, for example, was apparently
>offended at my criticism of the USA's foreign policy and answered it with
>lots of personal attacks upon me. His answer was, ironically, to call me
>petty and mean-spirited. Its understandable because nobody likes to be
>insulted, but I'd beg everyone to try and rise above hurt feelings because
>that kind of response doesn't help to move the conversation forward. Quite
>the contrary. I'll admit that there's part of me that just wants to return
>the favor, but I'll try to resist that impulse. Instead of tossing out
>insults I'll try to turn my response into something useful and interesting.
>Wish me luck. I'm only human.
>
>For starters, let's consider this Pirsigism about three different mirrors...
>
>
>"Its like a hall of mirrors at a carnival where some mirrors distort you one
>way and some distort you another. Already he'd seen three completely
>different mirror reflections this week: from Rigel, who reflected an image
>of some kind of moral degenerate; from Lila, who reflected a tedious old
>nerd; and now Redford who was probably going to cast him into some sort of
>heroic image. Each person you come to is a different mirror." P254
>
>Its interesting that these three reflections say as much about Rigel, Lila
>and Redford as they do about Pirsig. Maybe they even say more. That Rigel
>sees him as a moral degenerate, I think, only shows how Rigel sees himself.
>His values are at the quais-Victorian social level. And Lila's view shows
>where she's at. Her values are largely biological. And Redford's a film
>maker, but a relatively smart one. His business is to depict heros. (I'm
>with Redford on this one. I see RMP as a cultural hero.) In a very real
>sense, each one of them is projecting their own values onto Pirsig. Anyway,
>the author continues this idea...
>
>"Maybe mirrors are all you ever get. First the mirrors of your parents, then
>friends and teachers, then bosses and officials, priests and ministers, and
>maybe writers and painters too. ... But what controls all these mirrors is
>the culture: the Giant, the gods; and if you run afoul of the culture it
>will start throwing up reflections that try to destroy you." P254
>
>Its pretty clear what Pirsig is saying here. The giant controls the mirrors
>and thereby controls our image of ourselves. We tend here to think of the
>intellect as the main culprit in the kind of ego traps that the mystic is
>forever trying to overcome, but I think that's not quite true. Its the giant
>that needs to be transcended. Its social level values that determine the
>illusory self. I don't mean to confuse the intellect with the mystical here,
>but I think intellectual values really can serve as a means of
>transcendence, at least partially. The fourth level values can help to make
>the mirror less important to us. They can help to loosen the grip of those
>distorting mirrors. An intellectual approach helps to put the mirrors in
>their proper place. As Pirsig says...
>
>"All the badges and trophies, all the blue ribbons, all the promotion up the
>business ladder, all the elections to "high office", all the compliments and
>flattery of tea parties and cocktail parties (And DMB adds, all the internet
>discussion groups) are celebrity enhancements. All the feuding and battling
>for prestige among academic and scientists. All the offense at "insults".
>All the face of the Orient. Celebrity. Celebrity. ... In fact you can
>measure the quality of a university by comparing the relative strengths of
>the celebrity patterns and the intellectual patterns." P257
>
>Now, getting to specific kinds of mirrors, American mirrors, look at what
>Erin said on the issue of patriotism....
>I really don't understand the idea of being proud or guilty of being
>American.
>I am glad I was born in America but I had nothing to do with this matter so
>I
>do not feel pride our guilt about it. I would feel proud about a personal
>achievement that is partly possible to due to the environmental conditions
>of
>my country. But patriotism seems to be about the birth itself -- its like
>waving the old RED, WHITE, AND BLUE because I was born with red lips, white
>
>teeth,and blue eyes. Just seems silly.
>
>This seems like a pretty healthy attitude. If we identify too closely with
>our country, we can get kinda crazy. We can't rightly take credit for a
>nation's greatness or folly. Our nationality is strictly an accident of
>birth and we have no more choice over it than we do our hair color. (I have
>blue lips, white hair and red eyes, but that's only because I'm cold, old
>and stoned. Ba-dump-bump)
>
>Jospeh Campbell takes on this same theme of social transcendence at the end
>of his first book, THE HERO WITH A THOUSAND FACES, which was first published
>in 1949. He says...
>
>"But there is another way - in diametric opposition to that of social duty
>and the popular cult. From the standpoint of the way of duty, anyone in
>exile from the community is a nothing. From the other point of view,
>however, this exile is the first step of the quest. ... The image of man
>within is not to be confounded with the garments. We think of ourselves as
>Americans, children of the twentieth century, Occidentals, civilized
>Christians. Yet such designations do not tell what it is to be man, they
>denote only the accidents of geography, birth-date, and income. What is the
>core of us? What is the basic character of our being? The asceticism of the
>medieval saints and of the yogis of India, the Hellenistic mystery
>initiations, the ancient philosophies of the East and of the West, are
>techniques for the shifting of the emphasis of individual consciousness away
>from the garments. No man can return fron such exercises and take very
>seriously himself as Mr So-and-so of Such-and-such a township, USA - Society
>and duties drop away." JC's Hero 385-6
>
>Now this brings us to the part where I have to resist the temptation to be
>merely insulting. I hope that it is taken as criticism with a purpose. It
>may feel every bit as unpleasant as petty name-calling, but I promise that
>the intention is much more than that. To take criticism of your nation as a
>personal attack only shows that you indentify yourself with the giant. It
>demonstrates an attachment to social values and an enslavement to the giant.
>And clinging to this third level value system is immoral to the extent that
>it contradicts intellectual values. The highest ideals of the USA are
>intellectual values and the long list of foreign policy follies that so
>offended Roger contradict those values. They are a list of the antics of the
>giant and they represent the unprincipled actions of an imperial empire.
>
>Further, it seems to me that genuine American patriotism, for lack of a
>better word, is to be found in the celebration of these highest ideals;
>equality of rights, equal justice, equal representation in a principled
>democracy, etc. Roger wants to believe that my criticism are inventions or
>disortions. He wants to believe there are good reasons for all the
>objectionable actions of his country. He wants to believe that the USA is
>among the most generous of the developed nations and when the facts flatly
>contradict that he wants to find good reasons for that too. Mirrors. He
>looks at the USA and sees himself. He looks at criticism of the USA and sees
>criticism of himself. He sees criticism of corporate power and sees a threat
>to his own power. Its a painful ego trap. His insulting reactions express
>the anger of the giant. It leads him to see insult where none is intended.
>It causes distortions in interpreting the MOQ too. I don't mean to pick on
>Roger. Nobody is immune to the mirrors. In fact, they're very important. But
>to get trapped in this way is not just patriotism, it is nationalism and
>extreme nationalism is pretty much the definition of fascism. That's why
>flag-wavers make me nervous. When it get out of hand, extreme nationalism
>doesn't just result in name-calling or philosophical distrotions. It leads
>to lots of cruelty and death. In such a situation offending people is the
>least of our problems.
>
>I'm not interested saving face so much as saving heads.
>
>Sincerely sorry if it hurt to read these words.
>DMB
>
>
>
>
>
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