>===== Original Message From moq_discuss@moq.org =====
Hello John,
This kind of reminds me of something I have been struggling with -
1) There is a lot of evidence that a part of health is control over your
environment (or at least the illusion of it- mind-body interaction type thing)
I can list lots of examples if anybody wants them.
Pros- prevents a learned helplessless feeling (victim of fate)
Cons- frustration at failure to manipulate others and environment, guilt when
bad things happen
2)Gary Zukav distinguishes whether your perspective of the events of the
universe occur by chance or whether the universe is wise and compassionate.
The first attitude leads to fear, mistrust and the second leads to a healthier
perspective.
When I hear people talk about living in the moment, no expectations of the
future I feel that it is similar to Zukav's approach. I had trouble
distinguishing that attitude from the one that believes in fate and becomes
passive to everything that happens to them (often leading to depression). The
only way I can reconcile is taking into consideration of Zukav's authentic
power with external power. I think the intellecualizing is important for
authentic power because it is about controlling your interpretation/response
to the events that happen to you. External power is when you try to control
other people's behavior/feelings and the events of the universe. To me Pirsig
shows authentic power when he doesn't try to manipulate others behavior but
has tremendous control of his response to what happens to him.
>JOHN: > Put crudely, when I am able to see and experience reality
>directly, unmediated by past learning and experience, and without
>expectations for the future, then my action which flows from my
>experience of reality is shaped not by morality, but by the situation.
>This is very similar to the definition of health in Gestalt therapy. To
>be healthy is to let the situation dictate. As Gavin said above, thought
>just gets in the way.
>
>So my concerns are at two levels. One, I would like to focus on how
>individuals become more open to experience, instead of filtering it
>through social and personal learnings. The premise is that the very
>immediacy of the experience allows dynamic quality to emerge, hence the
>appropriate action just flows from that.
>
>Secondly, because I am an intellectual by temperament, I am interested
>in talking about all this, but increasingly frustrated by the
>limitations of thinking about moral issues. So how does thinking about
>moral issues in a "a new and better (than dogmatic religion and amoral
>science) perspective" help? Who does it help? Does it matter?
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