Jonathan: check your emails for accuracy. You are misattributing the
paragraphs to me. I am not part of the "Israel is a theocracy" discussion,
nor have I discussed population numbers. Frankly, I don't care whether it is
or not. I do care about how Israel and all other countries in the world
behave.
If you have any integrity, you will apologise to me for suggesting that I
have 'singled Israel out and that "Many Israelis consider that to be
anti-Semitism. What do you say?" I say you should be more careful and
honest before flinging this charge about.
Do you apologise?
Lawry
> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk
> [mailto:owner-moq_discuss@venus.co.uk]On Behalf Of Jonathan B. Marder
> Sent: Monday, April 15, 2002 12:22 PM
> To: moq_discuss@moq.org
> Subject: RE: MD Israel, Palestine and the US
>
>
> Hi Darryl, Lawrence, Roger, David B., Miguel, (Glenn, Rob, Rod, Rasheed)
> and all,
>
> LAWRENCE to Jonathan
> <<I did in fact check my facts. Most explicitly, I did pull the numbers
> I
> used from the Web site I cited. I explicitly noted that the numbers
> were
> suspect. And then I *asked* for additional information from the list.
> I
> did this because I did, and do, respect those who are on this list. I
> would
> ask the same courtesy of others.
>
> I would also note that you didn't really address my question: What is
> the
> correct term for a country that is dominated by religion to the extent
> that
> Israel is? If it is not a "functional theocracy," what is it?
> >>>
>
> You are welcome to the correction on the facts.
> I did actually answer your question - you even recognise this . .
> ."dominated by religion to the EXTENT that Israel is".
> My corrections to your previous assumptions indicate that Israel is NOT
> dominated by the Jewish religion to the EXTENT you previously claimed.
>
>
> DARRYL
> <<<
> However, beyond that, I would submit that just because it is a common
> experience for many people of the world to have grown up under such a
> set of
> circumstances does not make it right. I suppose it is, as has been
> observed, insane to reject the world as it is, but that doesn't make it
> wrong to do so either.>>>
>
> DAVID B.
> <<<Instead of asking if Israel is a Theocracy, maybe
> we ought just ask "how theocratic is it?". To which I'd answer, "very".
> >>>
>
> Now, I haven't seen either Lawrence, nor David B. criticising other
> countries for being theocratic, and they have not substantiated their
> claim that Israel is MORE theocratic than other countries. It thus
> appears that they have singled out Israel, applying standards that they
> do not apply to other countries. Many Israelis consider that to be
> anti-Semitism. What do you say?
>
> Finally ROGER has unveiled something that looks like a positive idea. I
> support the ultimate goal (Israel and Palestine peaceful neighbour
> states), but think that the implementation is problematic, especially
> now.
> LAWRENCE's "Maybe if we just taught Sharon and Arafat how to use
> email..." actually might be a suggestion in the right direction.
> Actually, I think we should ship off Israeli leaders and Palestinian
> leaders to a holiday resort, or a desert island, but not let them talk
> about the Mid East for a month. They should be forced to talk about
> other things - home, family, etc. and engage in recreational activities
> together. (Hey, let's put them on Survivor!!!!). Only when they have
> gotten to know one another should they be allowed to start talking about
> peace.
>
> But Lawrence, please DO get your facts straight . . .
> <<<Israel finally opposed the establishment of an independent Palestine,
> reneging on what it had agreed to do in the Oslo accords. >>>
>
> Israel has not "finally" decided anything. Even Ariel Sharon has gone on
> record saying that he will accept full Palestinian sovereignty.
> As for Oslo, it was more about process, not borders and independence.
> The latter were left deliberately vague, because the parties were not
> yet able to agree. I think that we ALL agree that had Oslo stayed on
> track, it probably WOULD have led to an independent Palestinian state.
>
> <<<The Palestinians
> would be delighted, and this is all that they have been asking for, even
> since before Jewish settlers started to stream into Palestine. (See the
> Hussein-McMahon correspondence, culminating in the Agreement to this
> effect
> between the UK and Arabs.)>>>
>
> Lawrence, first you should know that substantial Jewish immigration
> (from Russia and Yemen) started long before 1915. By 1900, Jerusalem had
> a Jewish majority.
> Since you keep going on about the Hussein-McMahon 1915 agreement, I did
> some hunting to see if its contents were as I remembered. Firstly, it
> had little to do with the Palestinians. Hussein was Sherif of Mecca,
> living down in Arabia. The agreement was to get Hussein to revolt
> against the Turks during WWI. I don't know exactly how, but Hussein lost
> control of Mecca to the Saudi family. The British provided compensation
> in other territories they had conquered. Transjordan was created as a
> Kingdom for one son, Abdullah (great-grandfather of Abdullah II). The
> other son, Feisal, was first installed as king of Syria until the French
> kicked him out - he then got the throne of Iraq.
>
> I found an EXCELLENT discussion of the history at
> http://www.kinghussein.gov.jo/his_arabrevolt.html. You will note that
> the source is not a party to the Zionist conspiracy. I invite everyone
> to look at this, because it doesn't exactly support what Lawrence has
> been hinting at.
>
> Have a good read everyone.
>
> Jonathan
>
>
>
>
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