Elliot and all MOQers:
Elliot wrote...
Athoritarian is not conservative. Conservatives would leave the market
relatively free which would not be an athoritarian action. the political
universe is not one dimensional.
DMB...
Yea, I know. The left/right spectrum is best understood by adding a
Libertarian/Authoritarian dimension. Have you visted the web site
http://www.politicalcompass.org/? It offers a test to pin point your views
on both of these dimensions. Thus my reference to the dis-similarity between
Ghandi and Stalin, who are both on the far left, but are clearly different
breeds of cat.
Elliot wrote...
Regardless of what wilber says, i hope you dont think the MoQ pushes any
sort of political agenda, not even liberalism. The current society is very
strong and the current intellectual level is very weak. Society still
dictates values, making it the dominant level (despit the fact that society
dictates some values that promote intellect, that is for its own gains).
If the MoQ does point in a political direction, it is not towards societal
control of either economic nor individual values, it would be the
liberation of individuals from both. Although liberalism, with its values
more centered on individual rights, is a better path towrds this, it is
still basically the subordination of individuals to society (a lower level
devouring a higher one) and is thus not advocated by the MoQ.
DMB...
A political agenda? No, not exactly. What Pirsig and Wilber both do is place
political ideologies at different levels of evolution. Yesterday I posted
some relevant quotes from Wilber, but today its Pirsig's turn.
Pirsig...
«But what the larger intellectual structure of the Metaphysics of Quality
makes clear is that this political battle of science to free itself from
domination by social moral codes was in fact a *moral* battle! It was the
battle of a higher, intellectual level of evolution to keep itself from
being devoured by a lower, social level of evolution.
Pirsig...
«This [society vs. intellect] conflict explains the driving force behind
Hitler not as an insane search for power but as an all-consuming
glorification of social authority an hatred of intellectualism»
Pirsig...
Communism and socialism, programs for intellectual control over society,
were confronted by the reactionary forces of fascism, a program for the
social control of intellect. ... The gigantic power of socialism and
fascism, which have overwhelm this century, is explained by a conflict of
levels of evolution.
"The advent of of both democratic and communistic socialism and the fascist
reaction to them has been the consequence of this earthquake" P266 (fall of
Victorians is the fall of social level)
"The hurricane of social forces released by the overthrow of society by
intellect was most strongly felt in Europe, ..where Communism and socialism,
programs for intellectual control over society, were confronted by the
reactionary forces of fascism, a program for the social control of
intellect." P274
"The New Deal was many things, but at the center of it all was the belief
that intellectual planning by the government was necessary for society to
regain its health. ...it was also a new deal for the intelllectuals of
America." P274
"It's not that Victorian social economic patterns are more moral than
socialist intellectual economic patterns. Quite the opposite. They are LESS
moral as static patterns go." P221
Pirsig...
The Hippies have been interpreted as frivolous spoiled children, and the
period folling their departure as a 'return to values,' whatever that means.
The Metapshysics of Quality, however, says that's backward: the Hippie
revolution was the moral movement. The present period is the collapse of
values.
Pirsig...
This soup of sentiments about logically nonexistent entities can be
straightened out by the Metaphysics of Quality. It says that what is meant
by "human rights" is usually the moral code of intellect-vs.-society, the
moral right of intellect to be free of social control. Freedom of speech;
freedom of assembly, of travel; trial by jury; habeas corpus; government by
consent-these "human rights" are all intellect-vs.-society issues. According
to the Metaphysics of Quality these "human rights" have not just a
sentimental basis, but a rational, metaphysical basis».
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