Hi John,
JOHN: What Wilber points to is a more complex reality. Moral issues are not
simply debated in terms of intellect versus society, but a complex
developmental sequence, in which individuals move through increasingly more
moral stages.
Quality at one stage is not the same as, or somehow equivalent to, quality
at another. This is where the knee-jerk postmodern response that all
hierarchy is oppressive is so wide of the mark. (Sorry, Erin). Which is why
I hope our postmodern friends will rapidly encounter those aspects of
reality that force them to move on to a higher level of moral assessment.
ERIN: Nothing to apologize since I have never made that argument.
I don't think every hierarchy is oppressive, quality - sq/dq is a hierarchy.
I think a lot of hierarchies are incomplete though ( I think it may be
something to due with hierarchies that dismiss paradoxes).
I have been wondering why I have been defending postmodernism so much. It
wasn't until I came to this forum and heard so much postmodernism basing that
it all started. I think what I find annoying is the generalizations about it.
Do you see the irony in this?? Next time you make a postmodernism bashing,
oops I mean criticism, please quote the postmodernist you feel made that
argument. We all see how different MOQ is in all MOQers minds (and these
versions are not equal in my mind so drop that argument too) can you just
accept that about postmodernism too? Well I am stepping down from the defense
of postmodernism because the proportion of critique/bashing is making me
think that it is much easier to dismiss postmodernism then to think about it.
I am making a guess that a lot of it stems from "if Wilber says then ..." I
don't consider myself accepting or dismissing postmodernism-- still exploring
it I guess.
So go ahead bash away I've grown bored with this "postmodernism cause".
JOHN: In
terms of Pirsig's wisdom, I agree with those who saw ZMM as the more 'moral'
book. It allows for growth and change, and even working on the motorcycle
called ourselves, while Lila, despite its supposed foundation in undefinable
dynamic quality, is mostly about the conflicts between static levels. It has
some of the fundamental elements of a truly adequate morality, but its
ignorance of human development is fatal.
ERIN: That's funny because have you ever considered the possibility that
there is a development from ZAMM to LILA. Maybe, possibly that it wasn't a
regression?
I can pull up the quotes from the internet but Pirsig did admit to being too
condescending to the couple in ZAMM and that LILA was smarter.
I think the possibilty of this is about painful as thinking postmodernism may
be spot on. Who knows, time will tell.
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