Hi david:
> david said:
> -> Its immoral to stand by and allow anyone to be murdered,
>> especially if its you that's being murdered. Its not a right, its a duty
>> and a moral obligation.
>
> Elliot:
> It's your moral obligation to murder someone who's trying to murder you?
> I'm sure many people agree with you but i dont believe pirsig ever says
> this, nor is it even implied. infact, i think the MoQ morality says it's
> immoral to ever kill another individual (possesor of wisedom and
> individuality). I dont see anything in the MoQ that says you are better
> than the attempting murderer and that he deserves to die and that you
> don't.
>
> DMB says:
> You're taking issue with a comment noboby made. And if that weren't
> illogical and irrational enough, you're saying that a murder should just
> be allowed to kill me? Its hard to imagine how anyone could be more
> wrong. Are you insane, or just pulling my leg??
Elliot:
on the contrary, what i wrote was a direct response to a comment you made
(although blowing it way out of proportion). And also, despite my personal
beliefs, the moral idea of never killing any human being under any
circumstances, even self defence, is popular in many cirlces. (Kurt
vonnegut mentioned in one of his speaches that he advoctes this blanket
moral, not like that makes a difference, but atleast some people believe
it). It does sound reasonable to not kill ever, who defines a good reason
other than society? just because self defence is widely accepted doesnt
mean it is "absoulte", as you seem to imply it is.
And i did not say he should be allowed to kill you, i say let him be the
one who commits the immoral act and let him pay through whatever
repercussions exsist. Karma or the judicial sytem or whatever. Someone
who kills is i think by definition insane, very very confused and in lots
of pain. Your self defence is driven by the exact same feelings his urge
to murder is. Some would say be above that fear and confusion. I didnt
say i do, but many do. In a past life the Buddha was a rabbit sitting on a
cliff. a hungry lion sat below. The buddha threw himself of the cliff out
of sympathy for the lions suffering. not that i advocte doing this, but do
you see the virtue? the excellence equal to that of your own view?
"it is like the person who views the sky through a reed and says that those
who do not look through the reed cannot possibly see the blue sky"
--wonhyo
Just keeping an open mind,
Elliot
PS. And about the paraphrase about individuality. I hope you dont enter
this arena thinking im here to decieve you, i am not. If it is not there
then i am mistaken. But i assure you that to the extent that i can be
certain i know it was there, and if i ever come across it again (next time
i read it all the way through, which i wont do for this one little point),
i'd be glad to point out the page. No need to eat your copy, its not that
big of a deal.
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This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Sat Aug 17 2002 - 16:02:14 BST