Hi, Gary here. May I offer some help? MoQ, SOM, and SOLAQI are all human
maps. All part of the 4th stable patterns of Intellect. All products of
the human mind. But that does not mean that there is nothing else. There
is all the levels below the 4th! Everything is real. Each level has its
own purpose and its own existence on its own level! The whole process is to
become of aware of our never broken connection to the 5th level. Life
evolved to become aware of itself. To give the Ground of Being a voice!
And to thus evolve toward a level beyond the 4th. Quality is before all 4
levels as the Ground of Being and Quality is the Goal of Being as the 5th
and final level.
Reality is not to be found by excluding or forgetting that everything comes
out of Quality building upwards Dynamically, finding stability and thus
making each level along the way as it keeps on evolving. All the levels are
not separate but a continuum! Never separated expect by us humans who have
to freeze reality in order to understand it. Our ideas may be static but
Reality is a Dynamic continuum which is never separate. Our words can never
affect the underlying truth of a non-verbal, indefinable and beyond human
words, Reality.
Remember Lao Tsu: "The Quality that can be spoken about is not the True
Quality."
Hoped that helped
Gary Jaron, "People shape, and are shaped by, ideas."
----- Original Message -----
From: enoonan <enoonan@kent.edu>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Monday, May 27, 2002 8:37 AM
Subject: MD RE: SOLAQI
> Bo,
>
> BO:I think it was
> >Erin who - as the umpteenth person at this discussion - pointed to the
> >impossibility of defining intellect, and my interpretation is an attempt
at
> >a definition.
>
> ERIN: No, I said no one has agreed about what constitutes the intellectual
> level --thus there is no agreed upon definiton.
>
>
> Bo said:
> The "ordinary" understanding of the MOQ is that its intellectual level is
> the realm of ideas, and consequently that SOM & MOQ are intellectual
> patterns. This (ordinary understanding) however makes everything
> intellectual patterns for what is NOT ideas - just in our minds, and we
> are back in SOM's mind/matter quagmire.
>
> Erin: The MOQ is Pirsig's model. If SOLAQI is based on what the ordinary
> understanding of the intellectual level is and not Pirsig's then that just
> doesn't seem right.
>
> DMB says:
> Yea, we can have thoughts about what is "out there". This creates no
> problems. Its only natural because the higher levels include the lower
ones.
> We need no radical measure to get out of it. We don't want to get out of
it.
> We want to be totally embedded in it. The MOQ itself even includes SOM,
but
> also transcends it. It does not eject SOM completely out into space, it
> embedds it into a larger system. It explains how mind and matter are
> connected in, again, a matter of fact evolutionary relationship.
>
> ERIN: I completely agree with this. I thought at first SOLAQI might be an
> attempt to show how MOQ embeds SOM which I thought is good but if it was a
way
> to dissmiss SOM as the intellectual level then I didn't like it.
>
>
>
> Pirsig's next sentence:
> > > Also the
> > > term "quality" as used in the MOQ would be excluded from the
> > > intellectual level. In fact, the MOQ, which gives intellectual meaning
> > > to the term quality, would also have to be excluded from the
> > > intellectual level.
>
>
> About which Bo said:
> Here is the very crux: He says that the Quality idea (the MOQ) can't be
> a true intellectual pattern!
>
>
> DMB says:
> No. He's saying that IF your SOLAQI were true, then the MOQ would have to
be
> excluded from the intellectual level. This is exactly the problem with
> SOLAQI. It doesn't solve any problems. It only creates problems, big
> problems, such as the need for a fifth level.
>
> ERIN: That was kind of silly. Pirsig disagrees with your idea and you
> interpret it as proof. I agree that statement was directed about SOLAQI
> definition of the intellectual and why it didn't completely work, not how
it
> was right!
>
>
> Bo said:
> RIGHT! And the new Pirsig annotation shows that he sees this
> fuzziness.
>
> DMB says:
> I have no problem with the idea of such a boundary between levels, but the
> problem with putting the MOQ at the boundary between the 4th and 5th
levels
> is simply that there is NO FIFTH LEVEL in the MOQ.
>
>
> ERIN: I would say that SOLAQI is an intellectual level overlaid with 3rd
level
> values. MOQ's intellectual level is an intellectual level influenced by
> dynamic quality which may result in a fifth level, time will tell.
> Right now it still a wilderness and who knows if it will turn into a
garden.
>
>
>
> MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
> Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
> MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
>
> To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
> http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Sat Aug 17 2002 - 16:02:16 BST