-----Original Message-----
From: Wim Nusselder [mailto:wim.nusselder@antenna.nl]
Sent: Sunday, June 02, 2002 2:24 AM
To: moq_discuss@moq.org
Subject: Re: MD language-derived
Dear David B. & Gary,
Wim and y'all:
Wim asked:
I'm also still trying to find out what that says about your definition of
the social level. You wrote 27/1 18:43 -0700:
'the unconscious mind ... is one of the most powerful and mysterious
features of the social level. ... Its not intellect and its not biology. The
unconscious mind is somewhere in between and connects the two.'
The 'things' you now (1/6 16:33 -0600) put under the heading 'social' don't
seem to belong to the 'unconscious mind' however: 'thinking, understanding,
myth making, writing a poem, religious doctrines, speaking a language, party
politics, counting and accounting, reading a newspaper'.
I would even say that they have a strong element of 'intellectual patterns
of values going off on purposes of their own' (even if they have reached
less of these 'purposes of their own' then the 'things' you put under the
heading 'intellectual').
DMB says:
Good question. But there isn't really any contradiction. Notice that I had
said the unconscious mind is ONE OF THE...FEATURES of the social level. That
is to say the social level is NOT identical to the unconscious. That
definition would exclude too much. Rather, as I understand it, that aspect
is one of the most influencial and misunderstood parts of the social level.
And I think that idea is backed up by Pirsig's recommendation of Campbell's
treatment of mythology. The author suggests that if we want to see social
values from the inside, we ought to read Campbells MASKS OF GOD. Its very
interesting to note that the archetypes and motifs that appear in myths and
religious imagery all over the world also appear spontaneously in dreams.
These common themes and images seem to spring naturally from the unconscious
mind. And even more interestingly, they seem to convey a certain dynamic
truth, as in the author's dream of the cartoon octopus. The social level
clearly has a conscious aspect too, but that part is far more obvious.
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Sat Aug 17 2002 - 16:02:18 BST