Wim,DMB,all
I went back to my illustration of the comparison of interpretations of
Wilbur to Pirsig's levels to see if this might be a source of DMB's and
my differences on the social/ intellect split.
DMB 3WD
Level 1 to 2 2-3 2-3
Level 2 to 3 9 slightly above 8
Level 3 to 4 12 slightly above 10
In reviewing these more closely I ran acrossed a glaring problem with
both our interpretations. As you are both aware Wilber maintains
internal evolution is something that each individual starts from scratch
at birth but that higher internal levels were not attainable until
equally high and corresponding external values were sufficiently evolved
to support them. So lets read out the four quadrant values for each of
our interpretations starting with in the lower left and moving clockwise.
DMB Bio/Social- Archaic-Symbols-Neocortex(Primates)-Tribes-Foraging.
DMB Social/Int- Rational-Formop-SF2-Industrial-Nation State
3WD Bio/Social- Typonic-Emotion-Limbic System(paleomammals)-Somewhere
between families and tribes.
3WD Social/Int- Magic-Concepts-Complex neocortex(humans)-tribal village horticultural
As you see neither my or DMB interpretation squares with Pirsigs claims.
Under my interpretation the social level starts when "paleomammals" form
"families and groups" and could have "emotions" which they interpret as
"magic". Under DMB's there is was no "rational" "intellectual" activity
until "industrial nation states", "form-op thinking", and "SF2 brains"
(whatever that means) evolved. I suggest DMB is closer to right in the
first instance, and that I am closer on the second.
Bio/Social just above 9- Archaic-Symbols-Neocortex(Primates)-Tribes-Foraging.
Social/Intellect just above 10-Magic-Concepts-Complex
neocortex(humans)-tribal village horticultural.
Once the "complexed human neocortex" evolved and about the time small
tribes started growing their own food, living in villages, they had
sufficiently evolved to developed "intellectual" concepts, rooted in
magic, and developed myths in which they tried to describe "reality" as
it "really" was. While the content, or values, or materials, of their
thoughts may have been in error they were a first attempt at asking and
answering those crucial intellectual question, "Where am I?", "How do I
know it?" and "What should I do?". These are intellectual concepts,
intellectual patterns of value.
Now, as my last post indicated, I do think DMB position reflects
Pirsig's if he is talking about when the intellectual level first came
to dominate the social level as the following quote make abundently
clear.
> "Phaedrus though is he had to pick one day when the shift from social
> dominance of intellect to intellectual dominance of society took place,
> he would pick November 11,1918, Armistice Day, the end of World War I."
> pg 270.... "The new culture that has emerged is the first in history to
> believe that patterns of society must be subordinate to patterns of
> intellect." pg. 304
But that is a whole different issue from when the intellect first
evolved or emerged.
3WD
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Sat Aug 17 2002 - 16:02:19 BST