DMB,
> Overwhelming evidence? I doubt it, but if you'd care to submit some of that
> evidence, I'm all eyes.
Unfortunately though, somewhere between what your "eyes" experience and
what you type and send here are either a few shorted circuits, or
possibly you're just more interested in polishing your rhetorical skills
than allowing your understanding of this issue to progress. If the
latter is the case that's call "stuckedness" possibly caused by "value rigidity".
But to help you out with some "evidence" here is a suggestion. Go to
Google (I already did) and type in (+mathematics,+ancient) after reading
a few links, then try it by replacing "mathematics" with astronamy,
calendars, philosophy,economy etc. I assure you the your eye's will see
dates as early as the 3 millennium BC, and that Pirsig has an explicit
quote that says "mathematics" is an intellectual pattern of values. But
if for some reason this doesn't get to your "mashed pea" I suggest that
you have your wife call Pirsig's ex-wife to get the number for the
"mental health" professionals that were involved with his treatment,
maybe she can get you a quick appointment. ;-)
Have a good week, and keep a look out for those white coats.
3WD
PS:
Gary
> Pirsig is wrong.
I agree, just not with your claim that "The two [intellect & social]
are evolutionarily
inseparable". I think he's wrong in claiming that the social level in
exclusively human. When this last came up someone reference a LC quote
where Pirsig seemed to back off this claim a little.
If one agrees with many of the ancient perennial philosophies and
current thinkers like Wilber and most recently Christopher Alexander in
the "The Nature of Order"; "mind", or "self", or some type of "internal
PoV" is present in everything, then it's easier to claim that the
emergence of the social level is pre-human.
By the way your argument that "society" is abstract pattern created by
the intellect is one of those infinite regress thingys, in so much as so
is "intellect", "biology", "inorganic" and every other word in every
other language.
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