Many of the questions in MoQ these days are of the
form "Do you belieive". This alludes to absolute truth
(tut ... fucking tut!), which does not exist in MoQ.
Why not say "Do you like the idea .... "? Its all
about what we like.
Do you believe?? Duh!
André
--- Gary Jaron <gershomdreamer@yahoo.com> wrote: > Hi
Platt,
> Before I can respond to you and to Scott's posts I
> need some clarifications.
> So, could you indulge me with replying to 3
> questions:
> 1) Do you believe that their exists a material
> physical reality independent
> of your, and any other human being, observing it.
> What I am getting at is
> if you, me and all humans died, would there still be
> a physical material
> universe filled with stars, galaxies, etc?
> 2) Do you believe that Pirsig believes that there
> exists a material physical
> reality independent of human observers?
> 3) In your e-mail you quote from Lila chapter 9, I
> have pasted that citation
> below this question. My question is: where is the
> 'thinking' mentioned
> through out that citation taking place? Where is
> the "distinctions" that
> the infant is making taking place? Where is the
> "noticing of differences
> and correlations of Dynamic quality" taking place?
> Where are those
> "deductions" the baby is making taking place? In
> the air? In someone's big
> toe? Nowhere in the physical material universe? Can
> you tell me where?
>
> Once I have these 3 answers, or even just the
> answers to the first two
> questions, I will be able to formulate a coherent
> response to your email.
>
> Hoping you will indulge me,
> Gary
>
> Here is your citation from your email;
> The answer to your question is found in Chap. 9 of
> LILA where Pirsig
> > describes how a baby learns. Here is the relevant
> passage, with certain
> > portions deleted in the interests of time and
> space:
> >
> > "One can imagine how an infant in the womb
> acquires awareness of
> > simple distinctions such as pressure and sound,
> and then at birth
> > acquires more complex ones of light and warmth and
> hunger. We know
> > these distinctions are pressure and sound and
> light and warmth and
> > hunger and so on but the baby doesn't. We could
> call them stimuli but
> > the baby doesn't identify them as that. From the
> baby's point of view,
> > something, he knows not what, compels attention.
> This generalized
> > "something," White-head's "dim apprehension," is
> Dynamic Quality.
> > If the baby ignores this force of Dynamic Quality
> it can be speculated
> > that he will become mentally retarded, but if he
> is normally attentive to
> > Dynamic Quality he will soon begin to notice
> differences and then
> > correlations between the differences and then
> repetitive patterns of the
> > correlations. But it is not until the baby is
> several months old that he
> will
> > begin to really understand enough about that
> enormously complex
> > correlation of sensations and boundaries and
> desires called an object to
> > be able to reach for one. This object will not be
> a primary experience. It
> > will be a complex pattern of static values derived
> from primary
> > experience. Once the baby has made a complex
> pattern of values
> > called an object and found this pattern to work
> well he quickly develops
> > a skill and speed at jumping through the chain of
> deductions that
> > produced it, as though it were a single jump. This
> is similar to the way
> > one drives a car. The first time there is a very
> slow trial-and-error
> > process of seeing what causes what. But in a very
> short time it
> > becomes so swift one doesn't even think about it.
> That is why we think
> > of subjects and objects as primary. We can't
> remember that period of
> > our lives when they were anything else. In this
> way static patterns of
> > value become the universe of distinguishable
> things. Elementary static
> > distinctions, between such entities as "before"
> and "after" and between
> > "like" and "unlike" grow into enormously complex
> patterns of knowledge
> > that are transmitted from generation to generation
> as the mythos, the
> > culture in which we live."
>
>
>
>
>
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