Hi Platt,
Thanks for your prompt reply. Very interesting. Your answers were
unexpected. Not sure what to make of your response.
To answer my own questions:
1) I believe that Quality is the source, the Ground of Being from which all
things manifest. I do believe Quality
manifests into a physical reality which start with quantum particles and
then continue on in complexity to atoms, etc. Ending with a physical
reality which would exist even if there were no humans or any other
sentient/self-aware life forms in the whole of the universe. Hence a
physical material universe independent of any observer.
2) I had also presumed Pirsig to believe the same.
As for your answer: I am not certain if I understand. You said a "high
quality intellectual pattern". Are you saying that there is no pattern of
Quality that takes the form of matter? I do not understand your
terminology. Could you please clarify?
3) Is the baby's experience something that someone other than the baby could
have knowledge of in the same way that the baby is experiencing?
I know understand from reading Scott's last post why I have been not getting
Scott's points. I had hoped that your answer would be simple enough for me
to understand and thus to formulate a response, but now I am a bit confused.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: Platt Holden <pholden@sc.rr.com>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Thursday, August 22, 2002 3:34 PM
Subject: Re: MD Consciousness
> Hi Gary:
>
> > Hi Platt,
> > Before I can respond to you and to Scott's posts I need some
> > clarifications. So, could you indulge me with replying to 3 questions:
>
> Happy to.
>
> > 1)
> > Do you believe that their exists a material physical reality independent
of
> > your, and any other human being, observing it. What I am getting at is
if
> > you, me and all humans died, would there still be a physical material
> > universe filled with stars, galaxies, etc?
>
> Yes, I believe in an independent physical reality as a high quality
> intellectual pattern, in fact, a necessary pattern for intellect to
function
> at all. But what is ultimately real is Quality, that which is experienced
> prior to any patterns.
>
> > 2) Do you believe that Pirsig
> > believes that there exists a material physical reality independent of
human
> > observers?
>
> Yes, in same way as my answer to your first question.
>
> 3) In your e-mail you quote from Lila chapter 9, I have pasted
> > that citation below this question. My question is: where is the
'thinking'
> > mentioned through out that citation taking place? Where is the
> > "distinctions" that the infant is making taking place? Where is the
> > "noticing of differences and correlations of Dynamic quality" taking
place?
> > Where are those "deductions" the baby is making taking place? In the
air?
> > In someone's big toe? Nowhere in the physical material universe? Can
you
> > tell me where?
>
> All the activities you describe occur in the intellectual patterns Pirsig
> uses to describe how a baby acquires knowledge and in your
> interpretation of those patterns. From the baby's viewpoint, "Where?" is
> not an issue. Experience is all that counts.
>
> > Once I have these 3 answers, or even just the answers to the first two
> > questions, I will be able to formulate a coherent response to your
email.
>
> Hope these answers help.
>
> Platt
>
>
>
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