Hi Scott,
Thank you for this most gentle "rebuke". This helps me to understand and to
appreciate what I am reading.
Gary
----- Original Message -----
From: "Scott R" <jse885@spinn.net>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Sunday, September 01, 2002 8:10 AM
Subject: Re: MD Value and Time
> Gary,
>
> In his first Realization, Merrell-Wolff says that -- during the
> experience -- he found the physical world to be distasteful, and wanted
> to leave it, but decided to stick around to help others, and this seems
> to be what you are focusing on. In his second Realization, which he
> originally called the High Indifference, he realized that sticking
> around or not didn't matter -- each was ok. So I think you are harping
> on something that is not central to what he had to say. He did live
> another 49 years after these events, by the way.
>
> For sure, he rejects the philosophical concept of matter, but so does
> Pirsig (when he rejects the "metaphysics of substance"). But you're
> right that Merrell-Wolff does not, as far as I know, say anything about
> it being part of mankind's duty to redeem (what we call) matter, as,
> say, Sri Aurobindo does, or Isaac Luria (releasing the sparks of
> divinity caught in the shards from the original act of creation), or as
> in your quote below. I think there is something to this, though I think
> you are taking the mythical description too literally.
>
> The Buddhist phrase "nirvana is samsara" should also clue you that
> Buddhists too do not consider withdrawal from the physical world to be
> the Answer (though many practicing Buddhists may think so, but then most
> religionists tend to be heretics in one way or another).
>
> I don't know anywhere where Merrell-Wolff says "my way is the only way".
> He does say that a change in consciousness is necessary, but surely that
> is what every mystic says, isn't it? How are we going to release the
> sparks if we can't even recognize their existence? The whole point of
> treating everything as consciousness and not matter is to recognize that
> our customary notion that there is this realm of dead matter is wrong,
> and we need to treat it as alive and ware (e.g., as embodied Quality)
> before we can think about redeeming it. To do that we need to overcome
> our dualist habits of thought, which you seem determined to preserve.
> Why else do you think I've been warning about the SOM-ish underpinning
> of the phrase "the map is not the territory"?
>
> - Scott
>
> Gary Jaron wrote:
>
> > Hi Scott,
> >
> > I found a quote from a Jewish Mystic that is on point. The point being
that
> > the physical is not to be ignored and is a source of truth. Which
> > challenges Wolff's and the Hindu/Buddhist perspective in the
unimportance
> > of the physical aspect of reality.
> >
> > The quote is from Moses De Leon (he is the author of the Zohar.) it is
from
> > his book "Sefer ha-Mishqal" [I do not know enough Hebrew to translate
> > Mishqal.]
> > --------------------------
> > 'The purpose of the soul entering this body is to display her powers and
> > actions in this world, for she needs an instrument. By descending to
this
> > world, she increases the flow of her power to guide the human being
through
> > the world. Thereby she perfects herself above and below, attaining a
higher
> > state by being fulfilled in all dimensions. If she is not fulfilled
above
> > and below, she is not complete.
> >
> > Before descending to this world, the soul is emanated from the mystery
of
> > the highest level. While in this world, she is completed and fulfilled
by
> > this lower world. Departing this world she is filled with the fullness
of
> > all worlds, the world above and the world below.
> >
> > At first, before descending to this world, the soul is imperfect; she is
> > lacking something. By descending to this world she is perfected in
every
> > dimension."
> > ------------------------
> > The soul, of course is our spark of the Divine Fire. Thus the Divine is
> > perfected by becoming physical!
> >
> > Wolff misses this. His certainty blinds him to see beyond his beliefs.
> > Hence his problem. There are always more ways to truth than one that we
> > know. Doubt and uncertainty give us the wisdom to see beyond ourselves.
> >
> > I only disagree with Wolff when he tells me his way is the only way.
That
> > is the one thing I know for certain is false!
> >
> > Happy to live with doubt and uncertainty,
> > Gary
> > ----- Original Message -----
> > From: "Scott R" <jse885@spinn.net>
> > To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
> > Sent: Saturday, August 31, 2002 2:27 PM
> > Subject: Re: MD Value and Time
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >>You end up with:
> >>"The point is that faith/ belief does not ever equal TRUTH."
> >>
> >>This is news? Merrell-Wolff's point is that Knowing the TRUTH requires
> >>mystical transcendence, that once one gets it, faith/belief are no
> >>longer necessary. I agree with him, that is, my faith is that he and
> >>some other mystics Know what they are talking about. Your faith appears
> >>to be that they don't.
> >>
> >>- Scott
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
> > Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
> > MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
> >
> > To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
> > http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
> MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
> Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
> MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
>
> To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
> http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Fri Oct 25 2002 - 16:06:29 BST