Hi Rog:
> Platt wrote:
> I find "emergence" and "self-organization" entirely bereft of scientific
> explanation because both concepts fail to identify deterministic causes or
> "mechanisms" for the phenomena in question.
For the record, here's fully what a wrote:
"I find "emergence" and "self-organization" entirely bereft of scientific
explanation because both concepts fail to identify deterministic causes
or "mechanisms" for the phenomena in question. Darwinian theory, for
example, is accepted because "natural selection" can be show to be a
mechanism (cause) for changes in organisms. But, no such mechanism
has been found to explain why a certain combination of hydrogen and
oxygen produces wetness. So, wetness just "emerges." Duh. Or to look
at it another way. Would you accept as an explanation of crop circles
that they are emergent properties of the aggregate behavior of certain
wheat plants? No? Well, like Scott, I don't accept that consciousness is
"just a complex result arising from non-conscious interactions." Nor do I
accept a host of other phenomena attributed by science to non-causal
emergence, self-organization, or chance. If your going to call your
explanation "scientific," you should, as the judicial system demands,
"show cause," and be sure to base it on something "natural," meaning
material and measurable."
Your response:
> I will be sure to pass on your findings to the Santa Fe Institute. I am
> sure some of they will want to know how misguided they've been. Just
> joking...
>
> Seriously though, I have no idea why I defend EMERGENCE and you
>shift the argument to CONSCIOUSNESS. If you have an argument
>with that particular theory of emergence, please feel free to attack it.
>That says nothing in regards to the general concept though, does it?
How what I wrote can be interpreted that I shifted "the argument to
consciousness" escapes me. Nor did I detect anything in your response
that shows material and measurable causes for any so-called emergent
or self-organizing properties including and most especially goal directed
behavior in organisms. If you can, your Sante Fe Institute will assuredly
make you honorary chairman and a Nobel prize awaits. (-:
Platt
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