Hi Platt,
You wrote:
> Social and intellectual static patterns are subject to influence by DQ,
> but static inorganic and biological patterns are no longer in flux, i.e.,
> they are universally fixed by nature.
Wouldn't this statement imply that biological evolution according to
Darwinian theory no longer occurs? Is that what you were meaning to imply?
Regards,
-- Sriram
----- Original Message -----
From: "Platt Holden" <pholden@sc.rr.com>
To: <moq_discuss@moq.org>
Sent: Monday, September 23, 2002 11:57 AM
Subject: RE: MD Irrationality
> Hi Kevin:
>
> > Platt:
> > Experience as used by Pirsig refers to each individual's experience and
> > observed data, not the collective knowledge of our times. In the MOQ,
> > personally "observed data" includes Quality.
> >
> > Kevin:
> > I would agree that this is what Pirsig is referring to as well. It is
> > essential for individuals to pursue the Dynamic and to test ideas for
> > agreement with personal experience.
>
> Agree.
>
> > This, of course, also brings up one of Pirsig's other themes in LILA.
> > Namely, how to balance a society's needs with the right's of Dynamic
> > individuals. Without the Dynamic individual, we have rigid Social
> > Patterns and great potential for stagnation and oppression. Social
> > patterns, OTOH, require a means of balancing competing individual
> > interests. If individual Dynamics are unchecked, they can subvert the
> > very social pattern that garuntees their freedoms. Pirsig raises this
> > concern several times in LILA.
>
> Agree.
>
> > Isn't Democracy an idea of high Quality? Doesn't Democracy require that
> > individual's sacrifice some individual freedom in favor of collective
> > rights? "The right to swing my fist ends where the next man's nose
> > begins"--Oliver Wendell Holmes, IIRC.
>
> Agree.
>
> > Isn't Democracy an exercise in building Solidarity?
>
> "Solidarity" is often used by unions to indicate everyone in the union
> agrees with (or should agree with) the union's demands. Scabs (workers
> who disagree) risk being physically harmed by "swinging fists." So to
> me "solidarity" is not the best way to describe democracy which, if
> properly set up, protects minorities from physical abuse by the majority.
> (Verbal abuse is permissible for the higher good of free speech.) The
> last thing a nation should strive for is everyone marching in lock step
> (fascism, communism) which the term "solidarity" suggests.
>
> > Platt quotes me and offers:
> > > I reject that notion that Pirsig would suggest a Morality (collection
of
> > > Quality judgements) as being Universal or ahistorical. He clearly
> > > intends, IMO, that Quality judgements are assessments made as needed.
> >
> > > Today's High Quality is tomorrow's most rigid Static Pattern.
> >
> > Then you and I have read two different books. Universal static moral
> > patterns are absolutely necessary for anything to survive. If quantum
> > particles go, we all go.
> >
> > Kevin:
> > Simple miscommunication, I suspect. I assume you are not suggesting that
> > "Universal static patterns" are not in flux? That was my point. The
> > Dynamic latches as a Static Pattern that is transcended by the Dynamic
> > again that latches to a new Static Pattern, etc. I've always felt that
the
> > idea of the Hegelian Dialectic took on much greater significance (for me
at
> > least) in a Post-Pirsig Quality Universe.
>
> Social and intellectual static patterns are subject to influence by DQ,
> but static inorganic and biological patterns are no longer in flux, i.e.,
> they are universally fixed by nature. Man can tinker with DNA and
> create unnatural life forms, not as a result of DQ, but of amoral
intellect
> run amok. Nanotechnology threatens the physical make up of the
> universe, but if as a result we all disappear into a black hole it won't
be
> DQ's fault.
>
> Platt
>
>
>
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