From: Erin Noonan (enoonan@kent.edu)
Date: Wed Oct 02 2002 - 04:28:59 BST
>===== Original Message From moq_discuss@moq.org =====
>> Well I can reason that all men have value but you are
>> right that 'all men are equal' would have to be accepted
>> on faith. But I don't accept it because I just argued that Bush has low
>> intellectual value. But despite this type of value judgement I do accept
that
>> 'all men are equal' in the respects that I don't consider
>> my or anybody elses value judgement to be considered a fact.
>> Rather then saying I accept 'all men are equal' on faith I
>> would say I find it useful.
>
>Understand that I am distinguishing faith and factual belief. Faith
>includes loyalty, trust, and belief, but the word "belief" has two uses.
>One is to believe in a factual way, while the other is to have a conviction.
>It is the conviction idea of belief that has to do with faith (or at least
>this is how I see it as well as other progressive Christians.)
>
>Faith in the religious sense works the same as faith in the secular "All men
>are created equal" way. It is not about believing eight impossible things
>before breakfast, but about thinking about what it means for example to hold
>that Jesus is "the Truth, the Light, and the Way," and to discover what it
>means to live as though such a statement were true. Once again, this claim
>about Jesus has no more factual meaning than "all men are created equal," so
>faith in such a conviction can have nothing to do with believing it
>factually.
>
>What I would really like to see is religion that focuses on its role as a
>dynamic faith system rather than as a static belief system. On the end of
>factual belief it is doomed to fail, but I think the role of religion in
>helping people understand value in their lives can continue without dogma.
>
>By the way, I noticed that Erin removed the "created" part of the quote. I
>assume that this was done because it smacks of supernatural theism, but we
>have to admit that this exact language has more significance in the daily
>lives of Americans than the metaphysics of anything.
I didn't pull out 'created' on purpose so just ignore that.
I still don't really feel like I have to say I accept it
on fact. Saying you accept it on faith seems to say
you accept regardless of what you observe.
I can observe the quality of environments that support
equal rights to the quality of environments that don't support
equal rights. I accept the environment of equal rights because
there is more quality not because I have faith equality.
erin
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