From: SQUONKSTAIL@aol.com
Date: Fri Oct 04 2002 - 00:22:15 BST
In a message dated 10/3/02 1:14:32 PM GMT Daylight Time,
beasley@austarnet.com.au writes:
> Secondly, it is very vulnerable to a form of nihilism, which views us as
> meme machines, determined by the success or otherwise of the memes we
> contact in our society. As Susan Blackmore points out, there is no
> guarantee
> that the memes are good for us. This is in effect a refutation of Davidson,
> above, who assumes that "we are, always and everywhere, 'in touch with the
> world'." The world of memes is not the world of genes, and vague hopes that
> our language is helpfully constrained by the 'environment' seem hopelessly
> naive.
>
John B,
Not so fast.
Before making this second point, let us remind ourselves of that which the
second point is referring to:
'The post-modern attempt to view everything through the lens of language is
not all bad. It has forced us to think more carefully about the role of
language in our understanding, and points to a creative role in shaping the
world we inhabit through the language we adopt. It has some fundamental
weaknesses, though.'
Your second point attempts to address a weakness you assert.
But your introduction of memes is strange, as memes are not purely
linguistic. Actually, memetics asserts there is more to reality than
language; a bridge is an embodiment of a pragmatic arrangement of inorganic
patterns which may be assimilated memetically into culture via imitation.
Thus, the first Iron bridge ever designed and built in England used
traditional wood building techniques such as cotting and joinery.
If a designer should wish to abandon welding and rivets he/she could imitate
the techniques of the first Iron bridge and would in effect be promoting the
value of memes embodied in the design of the bridge.
No language is necessary, only the eye of a craftsman or artist.
Knowledge is gained because the bridge has been standing since the mid
1700's. We may assume this method of construction is good.
Memes are a second replicator. You must get this straight and confront the
magnitude of that which is being postulated: Culture is a life form of its
own; it is evolving.
When you say, 'As Susan Blackmore points out, there is no guarantee that the
memes are good for us' you gloss over:
1. You ARE memetic patterns evolving concomitantly with YOUR genetic
patterns.
2. The best memes survive of which one memeplex is that there is a YOU in the
first place. (In other words, it is valuable for you to believe there is a
YOU so that YOU can transmit the meme-of-self.)
3. The evolution of memes is motivated by the very same motivation that
evolves genes: DQ.
Therefore, value has everything to do with memes, for DQ is behind their
evolution.
Also, memes are more than linguistic, for culture is more than language.
Finally, and for now, one must remember that postmodernism as a body of
enquiry is exceptionally prone to the promotion of convoluted discourse and a
move away from knowledge towards chaos. A postmodernism may build a bridge in
a very daft shape that wobbles when first opened, but at the end of the day,
a bridge has to be good to survive.
If postmodernism itself is viewed in the meme paradigm, then what we are
witnessing is method memes have found for exploding into chaotic profusion of
convoluted patterns and shapes going crazy with little regard to static
latching.
You have to decide if you wish to be in the grip of this memetic storm, or
whether you should like to see it for what it really is and contemplate the
consequences of the storms progress?
I feel i may illustrate that which i should like to convey by offering the
following quote:
You know the way that things go,
When what you fight for starts to fall.
And in that fuzzy picture,
The writing stands out on the wall - so clearly on the wall.
Send out the signals deep and loud.
And in this place can you reassure me?
With a touch, a smile while the cradle is burning.
All the while the world is turning to noise.
The more that its surrounding us,
The more that it destroys.
Turn up the signal wipe out the noise.
Man i'm losing sound and sight,
Of all those who can tell me wrong from right.
When all things beautiful and bright sink in the night.
Yet there's still something in my heart,
That can find a way to make a start.
To turn up the signal, wipe out the noise.
Receive and transmit...
Peter Gabriel.
All the best,
Squonk.
MOQ.ORG - http://www.moq.org
Mail Archive - http://alt.venus.co.uk/hypermail/moq_discuss/
MD Queries - horse@darkstar.uk.net
To unsubscribe from moq_discuss follow the instructions at:
http://www.moq.org/md/subscribe.html
This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.5 : Fri Nov 01 2002 - 10:37:52 GMT