From: Erin Noonan (enoonan@kent.edu)
Date: Sun Oct 13 2002 - 20:08:14 BST
Okay i agree that the criteria given by Christian theologians in the late
fourth and early fifth centuries A.D. is not good.
But thank god we have the conservatives doing the
noble task of preserving it until something better comes
along. Kidding, kidding.
I thought the points were too open for interpretation.
So any ideas on any criteria that is good to use as
a guideline? Or is it something that has to be decided
on by case by case basis?
Saturday night live skit last night with Saddam.
"So why attack now?"
"Bush is like Batman and you are his Joker"
"I know but Joker had to commit a crime before Batman
went after him"
See the dilemma is that I think Hussein has commited
crimes but in his own country.
So not clear on when a war is justified or not or
exactly what America should or shouldn't do.
Any ideas--again we can just use generic examples.
Erin
>
>ERIN:
>> A group of conservative christians sent a letter to Bush
>> with criteria for a just war. they were obviously
>> in support for the war.
>> It made me think what exactly
>> is criteria for a moral war from a MOQ perspective.
>> Here are some points from that letter:
>> which do you agree with or disagree with...
>>
>> 1)In just war theory only defensive war is defensible
>
>RICK
> This is basically an "ends justifies the means" argument. From an MOQ
>standpoint, the rule is flawed because it doesn't discriminate between
>parties on the basis of the Quality of what is being defended. From a
>pragmatic standpoint, this rule simply isn't very useful. It doesn't
>account for the reality that often both sides in a war feel as though they
>are defending something. And let's not forget that sometimes the best
>defense is a good offense.... Or more to the point, sometimes it's hard to
>separate what 'defense' from 'offense.' Here is the US (as you know) our
>'war department' is actually known as "the Department of DEFENSE" run by the
>"secretary of DEFENSE". When we talk about what portion of the budget is
>going towards buying weapons, we call it "DEFENSE spending." etc.
> Maybe the narrow lens of "defense" and "offense" is better suited to
>football games than war and politics. Think of the American Revolution. Who
>was playing defense in that war? Or what about the Civil War? The North
>was 'defending' the Union of all States. The South was 'defending' their new
>nation. Bin Laden often claims to be 'defending' against the encroachment
>of the West. Bush is defending the US against terrorists, and contemplating
>"pre-emptive self-defense" against Iraq. If Bush attacks, Saddam will be
>defending against him....... How useful can this first rule possibly be???
>
>>
>> 2)Second, just war must have just intent.
>
>RICK
>Another "ends justifies the means" argument. It fails from an MOQ
>perspective for the same reason as the first rule... it doesn't discriminate
>Qualitatively between intentions. And once again, it's not really a very
>useful rule. The road to hell is paved with "just" intentions. Even Osama
>thinks his intentions are just. So this one really isn't saying much.
>
>> 3)Third, just war may only be commenced as a last resort.
>
>RICK
>Sure, war is only just if you have no other options. But the real trick is
>deciding when there really are no other options. After all, we all know
>what happens to he who hesitates....
>
>>
>> 4)Fourth, just war requires authorization by legitimate authority.
>
>RICK
>"Legitimate authority" is in the eyes of the authorized. To the suicide
>bombers, Osama Bin Laden is a legitimate authority. To the Nazis, Hitler
>was a legitimate authority. To the US Marines, GW Bush is a legitimate
>authority. To GW Bush, the UN is...????
>
>>
>> 5)Fifth, just war requires limited goals and the resort to armed force
>must
>> have a reasonable expectation of success. In other words, "total war" is
>> unacceptable and the war's goals must be achievable.
>
>RICK
> First, let's look at "limited goals"? What purpose does the qualifier
>"limited" serve here? What exactly would constitute an "unlimited goal"?
>Aren't all "goals" limited by definition? All this is really saying is that
>a just war must have goals which is not really a difficult requirement to
>fulfill when you think about it. Al Qeda might say that their goal is
>"limited" to the destruction of the US and its way of life.
> Second, that one must have "reasonable expectation of success" to
>morally justify a fight is the philosophy of an oppressor. "Don't try to
>fight me, b/c you probably can't beat me...?" On the contrary, the most
>moral fights are often the ones that are carried on in the face of bleak and
>overwhelming odds.
>
>>
>> 6)Sixth, just war theory requires noncombatant immunity.( will not target
>> civilians and will do all that it can to minimize noncombatant casualties)
>> 0
>
>RICK
> On one hand, I'm tempted to say that this is also an oppressor's
>philosophy. It's the side with a strong army telling the side without a
>strong army that it's only moral if you attack our strong army. On the
>other hand, if there is any such thing a 'just war' then surely this rule
>would be one its characteristics.
>
>>
>> 7)Seventh, just war theory requires the question of proportionality be
>> addressed. Will the human cost of the armed conflict to both sides be
>> proportionate to the stated objectives and goals? Does the good gained by
>> resort to armed conflict justify the cost of lives lost and bodies maimed?
>
>RICK
>It your basic risk/rewards analysis on a grand scale, utilitarianism at its
>most inexact. Everyone will come up with a different answer depending on
>what they see as the "good gained" and the value they place on individual
>human lives.
>
>
>lazy on sunday,
>rick
>
>
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