From: Patrick van den Berg (cirandar@yahoo.com)
Date: Sun Oct 27 2002 - 16:53:05 GMT
Hi Paco, Jonathan,
> BTW, your argument seems to be that
> complexity doesn't always lead
> to goal-oriented behavior or something. I would
> strongly agree, but this
> point of course doesn't even begin to address the
> explanation that complex
> lower level interactions shaped by evolution CAN lead
> to goals and purposes.
Well, I think I already made this point, but IMO having purposes are
experiental phenomena. Of course, statistics says that throwing two dice
leads to a non-flat distribution of numbers, because there is only one
possibility to throw 2 (1 + 1), but more possibilities to throw 7 (1+6,
2+5, 3+4, 4+3, 5+2, 6+1). Jonathan probably is charmed by cellular
automata, that can exhibit 'purpose-full' behavior in that they adapt
through necessarily fault-sensitive reproduction that enable them to
survive.
Trying to survive is a purpose we and other animals have. But the
'purpose-full' behavior of cellular automata is not EXPERIENCED by these
computer-programs. The robot Cog (or something) can smile to us, can
even converse with us, and therefore exhibits BEHAVIOR that can be
called purpose-full. But in Cog the behavior is not driven by experience
(computers can't be consious), in humans it is.
I think evolutionary (natural selection, game theory etc.) explanations
of purpose-full behavior are vere insightful and all, and I actually see
a beauty in these explanations. It can also explain, to a large extent,
complexity in organisms and eco-systems. But to make the conceptual leap
that complex forms and processes are purpose-full, I think is
essentially flawed- it smuggles, so to say, DQ into essential pure sq's.
I hope I made my point finally, I have to go, dinner's ready.
Greetings, Patrick
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