Hi Jonathon, Squad,
[Jonathon wrote]:
> The point here is that the "reality" we ar talking about can be experienced
> ONLY through maps and metaphors.
What makes you say that the reality can be "experienced" through maps? The
reality of something can only be experienced through reality. I would agree
that the map has got to have some ability to guide one to experiences, but the
diffence is important.
[Jonathon wrote]:
> Some weeks ago Sojourner wrote to me the following:-
> >There is an absolute reality. It's "absolutely" and 100% and exactly
> >what you believe it to be. Not your "perception" of "it", but what
> >you BELIEVE IT TO BE.
> (Sojourner, I hope you don't mind me quoting that from our private mail)
>
> I have to agree with him that we won't get anywhere if we start to talk
> about "Real" reality vs. metaphors of reality. However, where I disagree
> is his use of "absolute". Once reality depends on personal belief, then
> there can be no one absolute reality common to all mankind.
Well I'd have to disagree with both of you. I don't think there is a solution
to the "Other Mind's Problem", nor do I think there is no difference between
metaphors of reality and reality (as I experience it). I can't prove you exist
(or walk thru walls though i've believed I could and tried) but I do experience
a difference between my map of reality and reality (didn't I put that 7-11
here?). I guess i'm a hold out for the possible uniqueness of the individual
experience.
[Jonathon wrote]:
> I didn't say that recursion is invalid. All I said was that Intellect is
> a set of symbols (patterns of values) so when Intellect analyses itself,
> recursion is involved.
Ok, but it what does the use of recursion justy a special position for the MoQ
above the intellectual level? If you look at the TV Camera analogy you
originally proposed I don't think we see the MoQ "containing" the intellectual
level but what do see is a construct of the Intellectual level using its own
tools to propose a map of the intellectual level and the other levels as well.
Reality is no more a property of the Intellectual level, than a hiking trail is
a property of the contour map that describes it. The hiking map is certainly a
property of the Intellectual level but it might be wrong and is never 100%
accurate. Recursion at any level of the MoQ doesn't in my mind justify special
status for the products of the recursion. Consider multi-celluar life.
[Glen Dickey wrote]:
> >Personally i've wondered whether your not looking for a solution of
> what is
> >commonly known as the "Other Minds Problem". "How can I know (in the
> strong
> >sense of the term know) that anything outside my mind exits?" ...
[Jonathon wrote]:
> I just don't think it is a useful question. What difference does it
> make?
You don't think that any proof of the "Other Mind's Problem" (in the strong
sense of the word proof or know) would be useful? I'd give my eye teeth for a
proof of it that I could accept. You seem pretty well versed in the major
philosophers and I thought you would appreciate the question. I personally
don't think there is one, IMHO it's a "mu" question like "When did you stop
beating your wife?". Sorry if I offended you. I honestly think all we are left
with is "maps and metaphors" (life is to be lived and maps can help) but to
confuse the map with the terrain is something I view as religion not
metaphysics.
Sincerely,
Glen the Apologetic
Serf of Corporate Masters
homepage - http://www.moq.org
queries - mailto:moq@moq.org
unsubscribe - mailto:majordomo@moq.org with UNSUBSCRIBE MOQ_DISCUSS in
body of email
This archive was generated by hypermail 2b30 : Sat Aug 17 2002 - 16:02:34 BST