Hi squad, o'brienje & glove,
Just used your post as a launchpad glove- didn't mean to imply you
support the direction i'm taking it in.
hi Fintan,
the art of writing is very difficult and one of the hardest things to do is
to paraphrase someone else correctly. i am happy that you recognize freedom
as an essential point of view in the Metaphysics of Quality. that way we
begin to make progress on seeing that it is not the Metaphysics of Quality
that is mistaken, but rather a mis-labeling of what each level represents
within our analogy.
Fintan wrote:
Yes, I admit all societies today are potentially repressive, and therefore
the individual must have the freedom in which to challenge that society.
This freedom is at the heart of our obsession with FREEDOM.
But.....and it is a BIG but. The function of society is to RESTRAIN
individual
freedom. (What? did he really just say that?)
Yes I did say it.
You wanna see what a society with total individual freedom is like, then
read
Lord of the Flies by William Golding. Or check out the behaviour of a three
year old
throwing a tantrum. The infant is a demagogue. I do not mince words. If God
had not
cleverly designed it so that infants were considerably smaller than us, then
we would
be living in a dictatorship of the kindergarden.
Fintan, here it seems to me that you are confusing lower biological patterns
of value with higher intellectual patterns of value. i say lower only in the
context of the whole Metaphysics of Quality, as each level contains its own
moral values. as a child, humans are incapable of perceiving the
intellectual level as yet, as a rule. the childs tantrums are a regression
from the social level to the biological unless they are used pre-meditively.
then we move into something altogether different i suppose. the child has
transcended the social layer and is using the intellect to "get his/her way"
by disrupting social patterns with a tantrum. this becomes a pattern in some
people that lasts all thru adulthood...ah, the unbridled passion of really
giving that 7-iron a Good fling after an extremely Bad shot!
Fintan writes:
Is the adult any better?
Fintan, you have a point. but still, i think we must agree that there is a
sequence of events that led each of us to this point in life where we can
get together via cyberspace and discuss morality.
Fintan writes:
So, I say again: Intellect should submit to society- where that society is
good.
Fintan, i agree to a point. social static latches are needed, just as
inorganic static latches and biological static latches. still, intellectual
patterns of value lead to Dynamic freedom and cannot be restrained morally.
the key is to use these self-destructive patterns to transcend the self, in
some sense. that naturally leads back into Buddhism but it doesnt
necessarily have to. Buddhism is a social pattern of value and not an
intellectual one unless its purpose is under-stood, much like the child who
under-stands the reason for the tantrum and uses it to some end.
Fintan writes:
Or to put it another way:
One man's PROGRESS is another man's WAKING NIGHTMARE.
Fintan, i am sure Ted Kaszinsky, the hermit uni-bomber, would fully agree
with you. a balance is desired in all things.
Fintan writes:
Let's imagine the un-imaginable. That there once existed a Utopia.
Back........before the flood, for arguments sake.
Could intellect have been the servant of society back then? I can see how it
could
have worked that mind served only the GOOD. Personally I have had enough of
the
fruit of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil. Especially the evil
part. (sic).
Fintan, i happen to be a believer that myths and legends contain kernels of
truths revealed thru metaphors. if the time of the Golden Age is to be taken
literally then we have indeed fallen from grace.
Fintan writes:
I am not suggesting that we try to attain Utopia- rather that we try REGAIN
Utopia.
We blew it. Naturally- from our fallen state- it is easy to castigate
Utopia. But not so easy,
however- if we rename it PARADISE to imagine THOSE gates forever shut
against us.
Was Utopia actually BLAND. I think not. Look at the variety of season,
location and
circumstance we find around us today. If fallen life is this varied- then
how much more
variety may it have had before. Here in Ireland, in the past, most everybody
had a talent-
a high talent like music or painting. Now, most everybody listens to
SUPERGroups who
make a pseudo-music for the vast majority who are now PASSIVE. That
combination
of a passive majority and an pseudo-Entertainer minority is a classsic
EGO-ridden structure.
Let me make this clear: The voice which is amplified is ego-driven. The
voice which is
naturally heard is in RighT relation to the listener. (RT is the morpheme
{thanks Glove})
The intellect in RighT relation to society- implies a relationship between
intellect and
society. Intellect serving- not in a blind service- but in an ACTIVE
service.
Fintan, you are welcome. i dont mean to pick nits but i thought perhaps you
had another meaning in mind. you have the right idea in mind, but not the
correct approach, in my opinion. lets take the American Indians as an
example. many years ago, the white european settlers appeared on the shores
here and took the land for their own. they moved the Natives to
reservations, usually on the very poorest land that no one else wanted
anyway. the years went by and things were very bad for the Natives. poverty
and disease were rampant. alcoholism and drug abuse epidemic. and then
something happened.
a few individuals began counciling the tribes to go back to basic value
systems instilled by their ancestors. and they also realized that the very
laws that kept them on the reservations also exempted them from
anti-gambling laws. casinos paved the way to an increased standard of living
for all tribal members. there is a land dispute underway now in my area
between the Shabbona Indians and the local
government, which it looks like the Indians are going to win. and it is
their intension to build the first land-based casino here in illinios.
i only mention this because the white europeans did not " wipe-out " the
Native Americans at all. Dynamic Quality has a way of turning disasterous
defeats into just the way things are.
thanks for sharing your thoughts and many best wishes
glove
http://members.tripod.com/~Glove_r/Bohr.html
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